Sonic & The Youth

[cube_b3]

For all the critics bitching about the homing attack, and the modern look of sonic being implemented in Sonic 4 have they stopped to think that a whole generation of kids have grown up with Sonic on the Gamecube?

They don't feel the nostalgia of seeing a Sonic model with out a visible Iris, or playing a Sonic game without the homing attack?

I think the decisions made in STH4 were the necessary decisions to balance the mature (only in name) demographic and the youth, I don't think I've seen any critic take demographic factors into account.

[fluffymoochicken]

Didn't you know? The main demographics for cartoon hedgehogs are 20- and 30-something year old men; especially ones who spend ridiculous amounts of time debating about them on the internet.

That's the way it's always been. I remember when I was a kid, my uncles were way into Sonic, but I preferred playing card games and sports sims. That's just the difference between children and grown men, I guess.

[George]

I like this thread, Sonic Youth is a great band.

Sonic fans have put up with the green eye hedgehog for awhile. Why not put in the classic Sonic for 4? It isn't like 'the gamecube kids' will get hurt by the choice and it isn't like they don't have Sonic Colors to look forward to.

>.>

[Orta]

What does Sonic visual design have to do with the homing attack and do we really need another Sonic thread.

[MadeManG74]

Basically, the Sonic we grew up with is dead and buried. He's not coming back. Ever. Sonic 4 destroyed the last bastion of hope we had.

It's okay though, we can be thankful for having known him at all.

[fluffymoochicken]

Basically, the Sonic we grew up with is dead and buried. He's not coming back. Ever. Sonic 4 destroyed the last bastion of hope we had.

Perhaps so.

Does that mean that the classic-only fans will finally move on with their lives? Fat chance.

[George]

Basically, the Sonic we grew up with is dead and buried. He's not coming back. Ever. Sonic 4 destroyed the last bastion of hope we had.

It's okay though, we can be thankful for having known him at all.

Strong words for someone that hasn't played the game.

[cube_b3]

Good for the gamecube kids, but this is Sonic 4. One title. Why not even have an unlockable skin?

I hope it is okay that I am replying to a blog post on the forums, I am just more comfortable here.

You have valid points, why not have unlockable skins, and the ability to toggle on/off homing attacks. However these 2 features are peripherals, the inclusion will make the overall experience better.

Although at present the focal point should be the physics, if STH4 was an ice cream should the primary concern be the cream or the nuts sprinkled on top.

The nuts in the analogy represent the skin and the current modus operandi of the community, is distracting from the more important issues.

Didn't you know? The main demographics for cartoon hedgehogs are 20- and 30-something year old men; especially ones who spend ridiculous amounts of time debating about them on the internet.

That's the way it's always been. I remember when I was a kid, my uncles were way into Sonic, but I preferred playing card games and sports sims. That's just the difference between children and grown men, I guess.

Sir I do not wish to shoot down your child hood memories, however my observations encompasses a considerably larger sample of population.

I am simply highlighting a point none of the ranters were taking into account, the only variable truly validated for ridicule has to be the physics.

Inclusion of peripheral novelties such as an unlock-able skin only distracts from the focal point.

[MadeManG74]

Basically, the Sonic we grew up with is dead and buried. He's not coming back. Ever. Sonic 4 destroyed the last bastion of hope we had.

It's okay though, we can be thankful for having known him at all.

Strong words for someone that hasn't played the game.

Indeed. Mostly just trying to get some conversation going, but the fact that I can't be arsed to play Sonic 4 when it should be so seminal speaks volumes I think.

[Aki-at]

I have to agree with MadeManG, classic Sonic is dead, his not coming back, move on people, the series core principles changed radically in Sonic Adventure, then more so in Sonic Rush and now we have a set fundamentals that the team gathered from Sonic Unleashed.

Sonic the Hedgehog 4 was an interesting experiment, but it too was not designed as how classic Sonic was. It was closer to Sonic Advance 3 in design than the previous classic games.

So to summarize, if you want the original core Sonic series principles back, not happening, however if you want a speedy platformer, which Sonic is still only of it's kind on the market, the Sonic series still features a lot of that and then some more.

[cube_b3]

It is to early to rule anything out, it is times like these you got to give credit for making the game episodic.

STH4 isn't out yet, we've just seen episode 1 of God knows how many episodes.

I am hoping they will physically release all the episodes on a disk.

[Aki-at]

It is to early to rule anything out, it is times like these you got to give credit for making the game episodic.

STH4 isn't out yet, we've just seen episode 1 of God knows how many episodes.

I am hoping they will physically release all the episodes on a disk.

It is not too early to rule anything out.

How can they drastically change the physics system to something different without the possibility of completely and utterly gimping the original episode? This is possibly the biggest element you need to make classic Sonic and it will not be changed or improved in future, because the current design of episode 1 does not dectate such a change.

The game is also receiving high scores from critics and is obviously going to sell very well, there is no incentive for SEGA to go back to the drawing boards.

Classic Sonic is dead, deal with it, as they say. Enjoy a speed based platformer that can give a great amount of enjoyment through speedrunning as you try to make it as fast a possible through each stage.

[Barry the Nomad]

Like I said over on the review comments, It really all comes down to SEGA keeping a consistent brand, something that was much needed in the Sonic series.

Consider that all of these appeared in stores within one year (2006):

Sonic '06, Riders, Rivals, Sonic X, Sonic Genesis

Now here is 2010:

Winter Olympics (iPhone, Wii), ASR, Sonic 4, Free Riders, Colors, Adventure also Alton Towers uses this imagery

Right there you can see that compared to 2006, SEGA has maintained a much stronger consistent brand image for Sonic in 2010. I'm not saying review scores are dependent on a solid brand image, as it really all comes down to the quality of the gameplay, but a consistent brand image helps.

Rather than thinking "oh a new Sonic game and a new iteration of Sonic! They must have failed the last game and rebooted.", consumers think "oh a new Sonic game with that Sonic from the previous game! I loved ASR, so I'll probably like Colors!". It helps too that the current design is associated with a positively received run of games. The same design that appeared in the well received All-Stars Racing also appears in other well received and anticipated games. Almost as if Sonic jumped out of the last game and into the next one. As long as SEGA keeps the game quality consistent, consumers will continue to associate the current design with "good Sonic" and the 2006 assortment of images as "bad Sonic" (Genesis Sonic excluded).

As for Classic Sonic, I'm not against SEGA bringing him back (if only for DLC or nostalgia value) but I really think that building on the current design is more important for the brand.

[Aki-at]

I (And I assume MadeManG) were not talking about black eyed and pot belly Sonic, we were rather talking about the gameplay principles.

[cube_b3]

How can they drastically change the physics system to something different without the possibility of completely and utterly gimping the original episode? This is possibly the biggest element you need to make classic Sonic and it will not be changed or improved in future, because the current design of episode 1 does not dectate such a change.

It is a matter of coding the engine, if the game comes to a screeching halt if you let go off the D-Pad, and refuses to accept gravity and friction i.e. laws of physics, we have a problem. A problem that can be fixed by making changes in the engine. If the engine is modified the changes will affect episode I and any other successive episode.

Classic Sonic is dead, deal with it, as they say.

First of all, please stop using the word dead, classic Sonic has evolved into current Sonic, it is the same character just because he's taller and has visible Iris is not an indication of "DEATH". It is such a harsh word.

This thread encompasses the #1 problem with STH4, the physics not the character design and as far as I remember gravity and friction bearings were intact till Sonic Adventure 2.

I haven't played Heroes, and as for 06/Unleashed... we have all discussed the functional construct of those games.

Enjoy a speed based platformer that can give a great amount of enjoyment through speedrunning as you try to make it as fast a possible through each stage.

Well said, Sir.