SEGAbits Forums
Gaming => General Gaming Discussion => Topic started by: Sharky on November 14, 2014, 01:23:42 am
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Straight up sucks the big one.
Once SEGA of America were a valuable asset to the company, I’ll give them that! But that was a long, long time ago and today they are the worst arm of SEGA. I’m sick of their shit. If SEGA was a person, SoA would be the diseased limb slowly festering, compromising the health of the entire company.
Over the past decade SEGA of America have been responsible for most giant fuck ups the company has made. The Matrix Online? Anyone remember the countdown site SoA launched and the comments they made saying everybody was going to love it? Only to reveal it was an MMORPG for a franchise nobody even gave a shit about any more?
Then there was Golden Axe: Beast Riders, BY MY BALLS what a piece of shit. Way to take a beloved classic, completely misunderstand what made it a beloved classic and create an absolute turd. No multiplayer even... What the....?
Now I’m not entirely sure but I believe we can hold SoA at least partly responsible for Shadow the Hedgehog? It certainly seems like their handy work.
Que that slimy prick Simon Jeffrey and his deal to make Marvel film tie ins... Que years of some of the shittiest games SEGA has ever produced. That fucking Ironman 2 game was the reason I stopped working on SEGANerds.
Next we have Sonic the Hedgehog 4 Episode 1... Just in case they hadn’t shit on your childhood with Beast Riders or quite ruined SEGAs overall image enough! Back at it, taking a beloved classic and really royally fucking it. SEGA of Americas idea of honouring a classic is making a game so cheap and shitty it felt like I could have been playing it on New Grounds.... In 2008.
Phantasy Star Online 2.... WHERE THE FUCK IS IT?!
And now Sonic Boom, the relaunch literally nobody asked for.... It’s not even a Sonic game, it might as well be fucking Garfield and Friends for as much as it has to do with Sonic. It doesn’t play like a Sonic game, It doesn’t look like a Sonic game, the characters are stupid looking... Even long term Sonic fanboys that’ll eat up any old shit are feeling alienated. But perhaps all that could be overlooked if they had just created a good game... But no- don’t be silly. Even if it wasn’t a buggy, poorly designed mess... It’s just bland.
In conclusion, fuck those guys...
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Right there with you dude. SoA sucks ginormous cock.
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Interview from 2008:
My interpretation of Sega of America right now is that it's becoming something of a different company from Sega of Japan. I don't know if that's accurate, but if it is, how did this semi-autonomy come about?
Simon Jeffery: It was by design, very much so. I think we've strongly tried to make Sega of America feel like it's not a Japanese company. We want to resonate better with gamers in the casual market than I think Japanese companies have traditionally been able to do in the west for a few years.
The output from Japan (in general) right now seems to be geared around a small number of huge games which really resonate with the western market, but most Japanese content just does not anymore. So that's a pretty big change from five or six years ago, and it's a big change from last generation.
We're trying to make sure we don't make the mistake of being another Japanese company trying to be another Japanese company in the west. We want to build our success through building products for the west in the west, so there are not many Japanese staff in our office at Sega of America. We have a lot of autonomy now, and it's absolutely by design.
Screw Simon Jeffery.
To be fair PSO2 and Sonic 4 isn't SoA's fault.
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Are you sure Sonic 4 isnt SoAs fault? It seemed very much at the time that SoA were behind the project.
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Are you sure Sonic 4 isnt SoAs fault? It seemed very much at the time that SoA were behind the project.
All SEGA America wanted was a 2D Sonic game to be called Sonic the Hedgehog 4. Sonic Team is responsible for that shambles.
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Shit how could I have forgotten Aliens: Colonial Marines?
And I also forgot to mention Secret Level, SoA bought them for fuck knows how much. Because they were good? No because they were located in the same city... They developed what, one game? Beast Riders- A total piece of shit... and then disbanded.
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So were have resorted to this now...Actually Jeffery may have had major screw ups but he also did several important things for Sega. One of them being helping Sega restore its power as a third party and getting them back into the top ten publishers in the west..Before then despite the stellar early games from Sega third party Sega was outside the top twenty.
ACM was Hayes fault as well as Jeffery.
Jeffery helped bring in PG.
Then there's CONDEMNED, UNIVERSE AT WAR and some other hidden gems. His problem was that he kept giving contracts to his friends like SHINY Entertainment who made GOLDEN COMPASS, GBX and Obsidian and several others and it back fired on him. Also it didn't help that one of the companies ended up getting sued over an engine.
The most important thing is that SOA has no real autonomy like they did back in the golden days. SOJ was calling the shots and Jeffery was taking their directives over how to crack the western market for them. So we can hate Jeffery and SOA all we want but its misguided since its basically SOJ run.
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Now let's list the mistakes that Jeffery made...
Unlike SOE he didn't make wise investments...
Secret Level was the perfect example. Wasted 30 million on a studio that didn't last very long. If he had waited he could have gotten Midway when they were up for sale..
Too many contracts for lots of games that ended up in development hell and canned and sacked...
This was the real reason he ended up resigning because the money that Sammy gave to the subsidiaries was a lot and he rewarded it on companies that obviously didn't or weren't able to deliver on time..including Silicon Knights, Gearbox and Edge of Reality.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=th_dd_0hhzs (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=th_dd_0hhzs)
CYPHER COMPLEX one of many games from SOA that got canned during Jeffery's reign of SOA.
Shitty Sonic spin offs...western interpratation
NIGHTS 2 was part of many games SOA was charged to remake for western appeal along with GOLDEN AXE and several others. The result was SONIC RIVALS SUPER MONKEY BALL ADVENTURES and other terrible iterations. Sonic Team took NIGHTS 2 themselves under their usa division..and screwed it up.
Also what happened with VECTOR MAN 3 for PS2 was also a major f up...
Not maintaing games that did work or fucking up a games chances
UNIVERSE AT WAR was a big screw up..a potential franchise that Sega of America messed up by insisting that a console version was needed and the rest was history. FULL AUTO was a classic example of not striking when the iron was hot...first by creating an PS3 only exclusive sequel which denied 360 fans as FULL AUTO was one of the early 360 games that people seemed to like and then bypassing a third game...which led to the creators folding up shop.
Sega.com
Not restructuring the website or linking it to their american arcade division or Gameworks division(one of the things Segasammy did when it was formed was gain full control of that amusement chain) This was something Kalinske and the old SOA would never let pas up as it was a golden opportunity to promote games...IE VIRTUA FIGHTER 5 when that came out could have easily been used to promote the game and tie in their arcade part by holding tourneys or whatever at gameworks centers where fans could have attended and tried out the game..
Not promoting the good games and promoting the crap games..
Marvel is the best example. The Marvel DS games were all brilliant..especially THOR..yet they focused on the titles that weren't that good on console. Picking rubbish developers to make the game in the first place..even though in the case of SL they didn't have the time to really tune that game because Marvel wanted the game out at a certain time. Even ALIENS had that problem..ALIENS INFESTATION was one of the better titles that Sega hardly promoted. This trend continued with SHINOBI 3DS way after Jeffery left..
YAKUZA
The localization of that game more than likely confirmed Nagoshi's fears about SOA not getting it..especially when Nagoshi was meant to reveal the game at E3 and not japan as was originally intended. But he didn't like the way the promotional staff was going to promote the game. Once the game got localized with plenty of good strong actors..it was a horrid dubbed mess. Swear words where none had been before and other nonsense..did more damage to YAKUZA's chances in the west .
After Jeffery...
The ECCO debacle
When two of the best creators from SOA past wanted to do an ECCO game you don't say no from the get go...this was another example of how SOA had fallen..just like the infamous.."what's STREETS OF RAGE" incident during the DC era. No appreciation of what went on before..and no clue has hindered SOA progress in modern times compared to SOE...
TOE JAM AND EARL
Another debacle....the guys approached Sega over a DS game which Sega refused to support...then when SONIC AND ALL STARS RACING came out and fans wanted to see TJ AND EARL in the game...SOA manged to screw that up as well.
The failure to bring SOJ games that could have worked in the west...
During the mid noughties Sega hit pay dirt in the pokomon rip off gravy train with the arcade game MUSHI KING and its GBA and NDS rpg game MUSHI KING. But they also had another game that was just as popular..LOVE AND BERRY. Now while MUSHI KING probably wouldn't have translated well in the western american market..LOVE AND BERRY could have especially with all the girl games that was coming out in the west during that time. SOA totally missed the boat on it..no thanks to SOJ. They also failed to exploit the popularity of BUKAGAN over here by not only bypassing the games rights to Activision who made decent money out of it..but the fact that Sega effectivly made the anime with TMS which was owned by Sega as well. Again Kalinske would never have made such a F up. This was also during Jeffery's reign oddly enough..
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I've been less than convinced of SoA for years now. It wasn't SOJ that released the Saturn months before it was ready, alienating customers, stores, developers and publishers in the process. SoJ wasn't the one that sold the rights to the Master System to Tonka for the US. Also everything Bernie Stolar ever did.
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I've been less than convinced of SoA for years now. It wasn't SOJ that released the Saturn months before it was ready, alienating customers, stores, developers and publishers in the process. SoJ wasn't the one that sold the rights to the Master System to Tonka for the US. Also everything Bernie Stolar ever did.
The Saturn situation was more complex than that to blame SOA for that. Tonka was down to the fact that they had a bigger distribution arm than Sega at that time had..so it made business sense..but it also didn't help that Nintendo had tied most of the third parties to an exclusive contract..so again you can't use that to attack SOA..Tonka was pretty big at that period and no one figured they would screw things up on the Master System...unlike Virgin Mastertronic who didn't in UK and Europe..
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I just think it's totally stupid to have basicilly 3 different companies, and think that the way Bandai Namco and Atlus were run is compeltly wrong. The japanese identidy should be embraced, not dismissed.
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Fair enough on the Master System, Nintendo's monopolistic tactics were a big part of that.
On the Saturn, it was at a major disadvantage from moment one due to the fact that the sudden reveal of the release of the Saturn months early meant that the games were far short of the level they should have been so the publishers had the choice of either missing the entire launch completely or release a bugged game. Also the retailers were not ready for the machine either. This was a very poor idea. It's not the only bad idea, but it was one of the big ones.
Bernie Stolar was a moron. "the Saturn is not our future". That was an idiotic thing to say in public. He was also responsible for some idiotic choices in terms of the list of great games that we didn't see outside of Japan. Working Designs left Sony because of stupid policies he had when there, and when he came to Sega with the same policies, they fled the Saturn, returning to Sony. Everything this guy did was bad.
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Fair enough on the Master System, Nintendo's monopolistic tactics were a big part of that.
On the Saturn, it was at a major disadvantage from moment one due to the fact that the sudden reveal of the release of the Saturn months early meant that the games were far short of the level they should have been so the publishers had the choice of either missing the entire launch completely or release a bugged game. Also the retailers were not ready for the machine either. This was a very poor idea. It's not the only bad idea, but it was one of the big ones.
Bernie Stolar was a moron. "the Saturn is not our future". That was an idiotic thing to say in public. He was also responsible for some idiotic choices in terms of the list of great games that we didn't see outside of Japan. Working Designs left Sony because of stupid policies he had when there, and when he came to Sega with the same policies, they fled the Saturn, returning to Sony. Everything this guy did was bad.
Again that was Kalinske reacting to Sony's move...and he realised how and that they meant business. SOJ is mainly to blame for the saturn and 32x debacle because they didn't plan properly and severly handicapped their divisons in getting ready for that system.Releasing it early or releasing it at its supposed date would not have made a difference..SOJ didn't have any key games of intrest to bring in the american consumer and made no attempt to bring in the fanbase they had built in the west to move onto their new system. Mis mangement 101..and it wasn't SOA or kalinke's fault.
Stolar of course was another thing entirely....you are correct about that one..
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Sharky, I know you're a mod and all, but can you not make topics with titles like that?
Anyway, retitled the topic as this does appear on the front page as a new topic.
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Sharky, I know you're a mod and all, but can you not make topics with titles like that?
Anyway, retitled the topic as this does appear on the front page as a new topic.
I guess SOA and SONIC BOOM was a step too far for Sharky...No harm in it didn't offend me...understand Shark's frustration..
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I guess SOA and SONIC BOOM was a step too far for Sharky...No harm in it didn't offend me...understand Shark's frustration..
I also understand how Sharky feels. SEGA America has put out a ton of crap. It's obvious management or whoever is in charge of overseeing game development at SOA has no clue what they are doing.
Having said that, there is a lot of good people at SOA, maybe just not on management level. It's because of the hard work of a lot of people at SOA that Hatsune Miku games are even coming west, for example.
Can't say it's SEGA Japan's fault seeing as how SEGA Europe makes nothing but good games and decisions. It's obviously a problem within SOA themselves.
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Shit how could I have forgotten Aliens: Colonial Marines?
And I also forgot to mention Secret Level, SoA bought them for fuck knows how much. Because they were good? No because they were located in the same city... They developed what, one game? Beast Riders- A total piece of shit... and then disbanded.
3 games actually, they were closed down before Iron man 2 was released.
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Sharky, I know you're a mod and all, but can you not make topics with titles like that?
Wow, this place has sure changed...
Also, a negative topic about Sega? And it's not made by me!?
I can see where Sharky is coming from, although I feel kind of like Sega as a whole is just constant disappointments for me. SoA depends on bought studios, licensed games and Sonic Boom. SoJ makes skinner boxes and 95% bizarre shit that I don't want to play but sells by the truckload in Japan (the remaining 5% being VF and Yakuza. One of which we'll NEVER EVER get to play in English anyway).
As for SoA and the darkest days, hoo boy that was some bad shit. With regards to Secret Level, weren't they meant to be a middle-ware developer (whatever the fuck that means) and not a game developer? No idea why they would hot-potato a classic IP like Golden Axe to them, and then dump their licensed games (High profile titles) onto them as well.
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Some of this isn't SOA's fault though? From what I understand, the deal with Colonial Marines was more that Gearbox were dicking around and using money Sega gave them on Borderlands, then outsourcing it, then producing a trailer of lies, and finally Gearbox had to get a game out the door. That last stretch was mostly SOA demanding a release since they likely had contracts to fill and just wanted the game out already, but I think it had more to do with Gearbox just being distrustworthy and lying.
Toejam and Earl got mentioned somewhere in here, like how a DS game was proposed but rejected. From what I understand, Toejam and Earl 3 sold horribly, and they were pretty much a dated concept to begin with, so their rejection of it I can understand. This was during a time when Sega as a whole was still trying to recover from the fall of the Dreamcast and near-bankruptcy, so a game that sounded like it might be a failure would be something they don't want to put too much money into. Same reason they produced decided to forgo a new Jet Set Radio and instead make a new House of the Dead, it was simply a better business decision at the time. Also, they DID manage to get Toejam and Earl for All-Stars Racing, but by the time rights got secured, it was too far in development to add them. I assume the same deal went down for Transformed.
Beast Riders was a shitty game, there's no dancing around that. But Beast Riders was six years ago. More intricate fuck-ups have been made since a bad reboot. SoA's fault? Probably, but they've made worse decisions since and I dunno why you're still hung up on it.
Vector Man 3 was, again, likely going to fail (aren't the original Genesis games somewhat obscure now?) so they never went after it.
Mis-marketing of games has been a huge problem for SoA of late, I won't deny. I think they would be much better off marketing the relatively cheap to make HD re-releases of games more, and starting to branch out into letting other games breathe. A good marketing campaign can make or break a game, though they seem to be doing well enough not marketing them (The Typing of the Dead Overkill and Valkryia Chronicles PC have apparently sold very well despite really any marketing whatsoever), so I could be wrong.
As for Yakuza, well I can only assume its lack of appearance in the west is due to some sort of xenophobia and trepidation around very Japanese-centered games, as in games taking place in Japan. You'll recall quite a few games from the 90's up to the aughts getting a treatment to hide the fact they're in Japan, and this trend has only really started to lose itself recently, since I would say 2007 or 2008-ish. Which just leaves the xenophobia.
Bringing unproven Japanese games to the west is always a gamble for any company, for a number of reasons, and that's all I got to say on that.
Some of it does put the blame entirely at SoA's feet, but SoA is also a business, and a business arm of a company that's struggled since the mid-90's and has only recently come out of a slump. Sometimes fan demand can't be met because you need to pay bills, no matter how much you want to make that game.
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Still waiting on My Universe at war and Alpha protocol sequels.....please?
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Some of this isn't SOA's fault though? From what I understand, the deal with Colonial Marines was more that Gearbox were dicking around and using money Sega gave them on Borderlands, then outsourcing it, then producing a trailer of lies, and finally Gearbox had to get a game out the door. That last stretch was mostly SOA demanding a release since they likely had contracts to fill and just wanted the game out already, but I think it had more to do with Gearbox just being distrustworthy and lying.
This is what's known as being a shitty publisher. It was their job to monitor their own investment. And money fiasco aside, let's get real; these people have no fucking idea what quality control means anyway.
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Still waiting on My Universe at war and Alpha protocol sequels.....please?
I would so want an AP sequel. especially with more Steven Heck.
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Some of this isn't SOA's fault though? From what I understand, the deal with Colonial Marines was more that Gearbox were dicking around and using money Sega gave them on Borderlands, then outsourcing it, then producing a trailer of lies, and finally Gearbox had to get a game out the door. That last stretch was mostly SOA demanding a release since they likely had contracts to fill and just wanted the game out already, but I think it had more to do with Gearbox just being distrustworthy and lying.
Toejam and Earl got mentioned somewhere in here, like how a DS game was proposed but rejected. From what I understand, Toejam and Earl 3 sold horribly, and they were pretty much a dated concept to begin with, so their rejection of it I can understand. This was during a time when Sega as a whole was still trying to recover from the fall of the Dreamcast and near-bankruptcy, so a game that sounded like it might be a failure would be something they don't want to put too much money into. Same reason they produced decided to forgo a new Jet Set Radio and instead make a new House of the Dead, it was simply a better business decision at the time. Also, they DID manage to get Toejam and Earl for All-Stars Racing, but by the time rights got secured, it was too far in development to add them. I assume the same deal went down for Transformed.
Beast Riders was a shitty game, there's no dancing around that. But Beast Riders was six years ago. More intricate fuck-ups have been made since a bad reboot. SoA's fault? Probably, but they've made worse decisions since and I dunno why you're still hung up on it.
Vector Man 3 was, again, likely going to fail (aren't the original Genesis games somewhat obscure now?) so they never went after it.
Mis-marketing of games has been a huge problem for SoA of late, I won't deny. I think they would be much better off marketing the relatively cheap to make HD re-releases of games more, and starting to branch out into letting other games breathe. A good marketing campaign can make or break a game, though they seem to be doing well enough not marketing them (The Typing of the Dead Overkill and Valkryia Chronicles PC have apparently sold very well despite really any marketing whatsoever), so I could be wrong.
As for Yakuza, well I can only assume its lack of appearance in the west is due to some sort of xenophobia and trepidation around very Japanese-centered games, as in games taking place in Japan. You'll recall quite a few games from the 90's up to the aughts getting a treatment to hide the fact they're in Japan, and this trend has only really started to lose itself recently, since I would say 2007 or 2008-ish. Which just leaves the xenophobia.
Bringing unproven Japanese games to the west is always a gamble for any company, for a number of reasons, and that's all I got to say on that.
Some of it does put the blame entirely at SoA's feet, but SoA is also a business, and a business arm of a company that's struggled since the mid-90's and has only recently come out of a slump. Sometimes fan demand can't be met because you need to pay bills, no matter how much you want to make that game.
I mentioned TJ AND EARL and by the time them came forward on a proposal it was when Sega wanted to re activate old IP. The SARAS doesn't make sense either since they could have easily included them in the sequel or various ports had they really secured the rights...no i'm sorry but it didn't play out that way at all.
GA and others are just a list of the screw ups made..UNIVERSE AT WAR and ALPHA PROTOCOL was also mentioned..the latter
because Sega wanted it ship before the game was really..and then didn't give it the proper media support.
Also SOA has a bad habit of cancelling good games and going ahead with bad ones..CYPHER COMPLEX is a perfect example..that game could have been great but got canned while others that were baloney didn't.
There may be good people on the ship..but so was good people on the titanic..it still didn't save it did it from the idiots who didn't dodge the obvious danger or made it actually unsinkable in the first place.
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I would so want an AP sequel. especially with more Steven Heck.
Alpha Protocol was so fucking good (despite being rough as guts in some areas), I wish we could get a sequel or spiritual successor.
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As for SoA and the darkest days, hoo boy that was some bad shit. With regards to Secret Level, weren't they meant to be a middle-ware developer (whatever the fuck that means) and not a game developer? No idea why they would hot-potato a classic IP like Golden Axe to them, and then dump their licensed games (High profile titles) onto them as well.
They were brought in addition to their middleware tech..they were always meant to make games though..
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This is what's known as being a shitty publisher. It was their job to monitor their own investment. And money fiasco aside, let's get real; these people have no fucking idea what quality control means anyway.
Nah GBX was on a con job from the start..you can't blame SOA for that regardless. GBX went out of their way to deceive Sega of america even when they pt the project on hold and then re started the project.Can't blame SOA for that one entirely..
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I don't mean to sound like I'm backing up SEGA of America, but really, talk about not knowing all the details. I mean, half the shit that is being talked about in this topic are like years and years old and considering that SEGA's management changes every few years, its not even the same people doing this shit. I think the license shit deals where just relics of the bad Simon Jeffery SEGA.
On one hand we don't have Phantasy Star Online 2, but IMO I think SEGA Japan already had some deal with Asiasoft. I mean, how weird is it that SEGA America announced over a year before Asiasoft did, that PSO2 was coming to America and then all of a sudden nothing. Then Asiasoft starts promoting that they will run the first ever English Phantasy Star Online 2 servers. A brand new company will put in their system in place etc. Isn't it strange that SEGA America has no issue bringing Phantasy Star 0, Phantasy Star Portable 2, but somehow fails to bring over a main series number? Especially when they know in finical reports that free-to-play and digital sales are on an increase for the company?
I think its easier to see the negative side of all of this and say "SEGA didn't bring me this and this and this" while not really seeing what brought SEGA into not bringing so-so title. I mean, they brought over 5 Yakuza games and they continued to sell mediocre. The truth is, SEGA America isn't really much of a company and has been known as SEGA West. One side does most of the gaming, the other mostly focuses on outsourcing and community team for what it seems.
SEGA is also stopping the release of just random games (Remember when they released 40 titles a year and only 1 got promotion?) I think its better to have a smaller, more focused release of games. Don't get me wrong, some turds will slip through (Sonic Boom) but honestly it has been more 'hits' than 'misses' with SEGA this year and I hope they bring that attention and care to future games they decide to create in the future.
Its easy to see all the shit they did in the last 20 years, but ignore the positives.
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I can definitely agree with Sharky's frustration, that's why i gave you a kudos for your gnarly rant..
Haven't been excited with a Sega published game for a long time, aside from Alien Isolation which actually seems to be a very good game.
I was never interested in Sonic Boom since they first unveiled it and am not surprised it's a total piece of shit. We all need to come to the realization that SOA is not the same Company they used to be and SOJ had a large part in that regard. I just don't understand how anyone can look at Sonic Boom and think "yeah, that's the fucking direction i think Sonic should go, people will totally dig this".. Seriously, it's an embarrassment..
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I don't mean to sound like I'm backing up SEGA of America, but really, talk about not knowing all the details. I mean, half the shit that is being talked about in this topic are like years and years old and considering that SEGA's management changes every few years, its not even the same people doing this shit. I think the license shit deals where just relics of the bad Simon Jeffery SEGA.
True, but I thought Sharky was just letting off some steam, bennet.
They were brought in addition to their middleware tech..they were always meant to make games though..
I remember someone going on about 'THEY BOUGHT THEM FOR MIDDLE WARE!!!!'
and I was like 'WHAT THE FUCK IS MIDDLEWARE!?'
But okay, I didn't know they wanted them to make games from teh get go. They shouldn't have given those greenhorns good IPs like Golden Axe though. I still think the old Golden Axe games are dog-shit, but still, everyone seems to like them for some reason.
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The funny thing about Simon Jeffery, I thought his plan was solid. I mean, make Marvel movie games? This was announced before the whole big 'Avengers' thing, but I knew the movie franchises where going to be big. He just fucked up when it came to development, using studios that had no talent and not being able to make a marketable product in like 2 years of development time. But if Thor, Hulk, Captain America and Iron Man games where good, I could see them selling like 10+ million considering how popular the characters are and how much consoles they where on.
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The funny thing about Simon Jeffery, I thought his plan was solid. I mean, make Marvel movie games? This was announced before the whole big 'Avengers' thing, but I knew the movie franchises where going to be big. He just fucked up when it came to development, using studios that had no talent and not being able to make a marketable product in like 2 years of development time. But if Thor, Hulk, Captain America and Iron Man games where good, I could see them selling like 10+ million considering how popular the characters are and how much consoles they where on.
I agree that the intent was great, but damn did they blow that opportunity. You think they would've learned their lesson after they released those horrible games and then ACM happened.. I'm just glad that Isolation is good which is an indication that they may be learning their lesson with not screwing up licensed games.
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My main problem with SoA has been their focus on being like every one else, thinking they can chase the same sales goals as EA/Activision/Ubisoft by putting out inferior and same-looking games. They used to deliver the goods from SoJ with offbeat, counter culture, and artistically unique concepts that thrived in being or emulating arcade-style kineticism. Since that only seemed to sell on their own platforms, and not well enough to keep them in the hardware business, they jumped into a busy intersection and can't cross the street without being mauled by a monster truck.
Most of their western-developed, 3rd party games now are things that I'd rather watch as a movie than play as a game. I should want to play a game based on the Alien franchise, but nothing SEGA has done with that license stood out as worth throwing money at (Isolation came close). They always seem like they could be ok, but then release at a time when better games or better things to do with my money appear. IMO, the best thing they published was Spiral Knights, but I wish it weren't online-only and pay-to-actually-see-the-good-stuff.
If the Valkyria Chronicles PC port hadn't happened this year, I'd probably be done with SEGA until another Saturn/Dreamcast port happened. I wouldn't even assume any ports could happen anymore, if not for VC.
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Nah GBX was on a con job from the start..you can't blame SOA for that regardless. GBX went out of their way to deceive Sega of america even when they pt the project on hold and then re started the project.Can't blame SOA for that one entirely..
Sure you can. Sega is a giant company who should watch their investments closely. Think about how incompetent you have to even be to be hoodwinked by a business partner on this scale. The very fact that they can't/haven't taken legal action yet is them basically admitting they don't have a case to stand on. Fuck man, they even readily COMPENSATED people who sued for false advertising. Gearbox are crooks but SoA fucked up plain and simple as well.
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I understand the frustration, but I will agree that there were positives a long with the negatives. To SoA's credit, at least they were smart enough to pass on Project Altered Beast.
I think after ACM and Boom, which are clear signs of something wrong in project management, they need to look into their policies/procedures and handling/choosing a developer for a project. Otherwise SoJ is just going to come down harder and harder on them.
The funny thing about Simon Jeffery, I thought his plan was solid. I mean, make Marvel movie games? This was announced before the whole big 'Avengers' thing, but I knew the movie franchises where going to be big. He just fucked up when it came to development, using studios that had no talent and not being able to make a marketable product in like 2 years of development time. But if Thor, Hulk, Captain America and Iron Man games where good, I could see them selling like 10+ million considering how popular the characters are and how much consoles they where on.
Wasn't the Captain America game better received of the Marvel games (not counting the Thor DS game)? I know Hulk got compared as an unpolished version of Ultimate Destruction.
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The funny thing about Simon Jeffery, I thought his plan was solid. I mean, make Marvel movie games? This was announced before the whole big 'Avengers' thing, but I knew the movie franchises where going to be big. He just fucked up when it came to development, using studios that had no talent and not being able to make a marketable product in like 2 years of development time. But if Thor, Hulk, Captain America and Iron Man games where good, I could see them selling like 10+ million considering how popular the characters are and how much consoles they where on.
Not to mention the characters and IPs would be enduring enough to support sequels and other games even without movie releases. Look at the Arkham games for example. I could see myself playing a good Thor game this year even though there was no movie release.
Having said that, Thor on DS was quite good.
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Wow, this place has sure changed...
It was regarding the topic title. I don't want people to think that topic titles like "SEGA of America fucking sucks" is okay here, because it is not. Have an opinion and back it up? Sure! And Sharky did, despite the over-the-top venting, which I'm not suppressing.
I just don't want forum members thinking "a mod made a topic titled that, I guess I can make my 'Iizuka is a fucking moron' topic and it will be cool.
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I just don't want forum members thinking "a mod made a topic titled that, I guess I can make my 'Iizuka is a fucking moron' topic and it will be cool.
Dang, well there goes my next topic idea.. I kid..
Seriously though, i feel like it's sort of our fault(well not us specifically) that we keep getting crap Sonic games like Boom. If people buy the games, then Sega will continue to feel like it's okay to release something as half assed as that game. Want to make a point, don't buy it.
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As big as of a Sonic Fan that I am? I made it clear that I was never really on board with the Boom games, especially after the E3 previews started pouring out. I never felt the need to pre-order/pick-up the games up at launch...and boy those pre-order bonuses were kind of weak.
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It was regarding the topic title. I don't want people to think that topic titles like "SEGA of America fucking sucks" is okay here, because it is not. Have an opinion and back it up? Sure! And Sharky did, despite the over-the-top venting, which I'm not suppressing.
I just don't want forum members thinking "a mod made a topic titled that, I guess I can make my 'Iizuka is a fucking moron' topic and it will be cool.
Why is it not okay though? And that's what I was referring to as well, there used to be much more abrasive topic titles than this one, and it was part of the charm.
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Why is it not okay though? And that's what I was referring to as well, there used to be much more abrasive topic titles than this one, and it was part of the charm.
Because a certain level of decor/professionalism needs to be maintained if this website wants to retain a connection to Sega. An alternative would be to remove that forum sidebar from the front page?
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Because a certain level of decor/professionalism needs to be maintained if this website wants to retain a connection to Sega. An alternative would be to remove that forum sidebar from the front page?
We have a redesign in the works that should remedy that. But really, it's not a huge deal (speaking to Mademan) I just didn't like such a topic title. Sharky and others can say what they want as long as it doesn't break existing forum rules, but theres that line that is crossed when that level of decor/professionalism Radrappy mentioned is broken.
This topic can continue on, I was just voicing my concern over the topic title and was saying I don't want people to think such topic titles are okay here - mainly the profanity bit.
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This was the real reason he ended up resigning because the money that Sammy gave to the subsidiaries was a lot and he rewarded it on companies that obviously didn't or weren't able to deliver on time..including Silicon Knights, Gearbox and Edge of Reality
Yep but they did have some bad luck too. Like with Pandemic Studios war game paid for SEGA only for EA to buy the corp. The crucible was going to be a real fab game with some great idea's and plans and some good Producers behind it (Ex system shock developers/producers) but that didn't work out in the end .
Shitty Sonic spin offs...western interpratationNIGHTS 2 was part of many games SOA was charged to remake for western appeal along with GOLDEN AXE and several others. The result was SONIC RIVALS SUPER MONKEY BALL ADVENTURES and other terrible iterations. Sonic Team took NIGHTS 2 themselves under their usa division..and screwed it up.
No the Sonic spin off all have to go through SEGA Japan . To give one example SEGA America wanted to remake the GBA/DS Sonic games for the PSP but SEGA Japan and Sonic Team rejected the idea and instead came up with the Rivals concept . NiGHTS II was planed to be a 360 and PS3 game with amazing dream visuals and to use the On-line side for real world weather systems and what not. That was blocked by SOJ for being to costly and SOJ thinking 'NiGHTS' was a child based game and so should be made on the Wii instead .
The localization of that game more than likely confirmed Nagoshi's fears about SOA not getting it..especially when Nagoshi was meant to reveal the game at E3 and not japan as was originally intended. But he didn't like the way the promotional staff was going to promote the game. Once the game got localized with plenty of good strong actors..it was a horrid dubbed mess. Swear words where none had been before and other nonsense..did more damage to YAKUZA's chances in the west
The English dub was a mandate by SONY America and it was nothing SEGA America or Japan could do about it and as for the swearing that is something the Japanese team and Nagoshi-sand wanted to be put in.
No please don't hit back with saying all of the above is rubbish , Back in those days I used to know A senior producer at SEGA and its all true.
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Secret Level was the perfect example. Wasted 30 million on a studio that didn't last very long. If he had waited he could have gotten Midway when they were up for sale..
Agreed a total waste of money. Should have bought a much better studio.
I've been less than convinced of SoA for years now. It wasn't SOJ that released the Saturn months before it was ready
No but SEGA Japan didn't help matter with no Sonic game planned early in and issues with development kits and tools
Bernie Stolar was a moron. "the Saturn is not our future". That was an idiotic thing to say in public. He was also responsible for some idiotic choices in terms of the list of great games that we didn't see outside of Japan. Working Designs left Sony because of stupid policies he had when there, and when he came to Sega with the same policies, they fled the Saturn, returning to Sony. Everything this guy did was bad
To a point yes , But he did do a lot of good with the Dreamcast and its lauch to be fair .
Next we have Sonic the Hedgehog 4 Episode 1... Just in case they hadn’t shit on your childhood with Beast Riders or quite ruined SEGAs overall image enough! Back at it, taking a beloved classic and really royally fucking it. SEGA of Americas idea of honouring a classic is making a game so cheap and shitty it felt like I could have been playing it on New Grounds.... In 2008.Phantasy Star Online 2.... WHERE THE FUCK IS IT?!
Blame SEGA Japan for no PSO II over here and everything SONIC and I mean everything Sonic goes through Sonic Team and SEGA Japan - They're in complete control with what happens with the IP and what gets the go ahead
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Someone at neogaf said it best imo
SEGA is like that degenerate gambler, always finds himself in a hole and the moment he lucks out and makes upward progress, he doubles double down on stupidity and ends up in a bigger hole.
The only bright thing i've been seeing is how good they have been on PC lately. The studio they bought have found benefits under SEGA as a PC publisher so far, and I hope they improving in that expertise hopefully we'll have a brighter future with localized games on steam as well after valkyria chronicles.
It is mostly the SEGA of old that I have a connection with. Turning on a mega drive or dreamcast instantly brings me back to why I like them so much, with the occasional gems that came out like valkyria chonicles and some of the yakuza games. But mostly the stuff of today is just a crock of shit full of shit garbage and motherfucking poor shitty attempts. FUCK!
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But mostly the stuff of today is just a crock of shit full of shit garbage and motherfucking poor shitty attempts. FUCK!
I'm sorry, but we don't use that type of language on this forum, please edit your post or you will be reported.
(Just kidding Barrington, you know I love you :-* :-* :-* )
Yep but they did have some bad luck too. Like with Pandemic Studios war game
There was also that time he bet on a sure-fire horse to win, and wagered the entire development budget of Jack Lumber on it. The horse got a cramp and collapsed on the first turn, he lost tens of dollars on that race, which he had to pay back out of his own pocket. Thankfully he was able to mug a pedestrian that same evening and use the contents of his wallet to complete development of Jack Lumber AND pay for the voice acting of NiGHTS: Journey into Dreams.
And before you say all that stuff is rubbish, my uncle works for Nintendo.
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Sharky, I know you're a mod and all, but can you not make topics with titles like that?
Anyway, retitled the topic as this does appear on the front page as a new topic.
Barry please... When I helped create Segabits, long before you weaseled your way in. Swearing was a non-issue, we swore on the front page, we swore in the podcast. It's just a word. Segabits wasn't trying to be SEGA's little bitch, Playing the bitch is the reason both George and I lift SegaNerds and went our own way in the first place.
Anyway back to my corner of negativity, SEGA of America may have done some good, Relic is a great start but that doesnt negate the fact that almost all of the really big issues over the past decade have been linked to SoA to some degree. SURE we can find issues with SoJ and even some with SoE, but it's SoA's level of ridiculous decisions that damages SEGA's overall image that I'm so wound up about. I hear rumours that the whole Sonic Boom band has cost SEGA over 20 million dollars and I don't know how true it is but it doesn't seem so far fetched and its success hinged on a game they couldn't even bother to ship out without making sure it's not a shit game, let alone bug free... Which it bloody well isn't!
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Barry please... When I helped create Segabits, long before you weaseled your way in. Swearing was a non-issue, we swore on the front page, we swore in the podcast. It's just a word. Segabits wasn't trying to be SEGA's little bitch, Playing the bitch is the reason both George and I lift SegaNerds and went our own way in the first place.
Police report shots fired in Jersey.
Anyway back to my corner of negativity, SEGA of America may have done some good, Relic is a great start but that doesnt negate the fact that almost all of the really big issues over the past decade have been linked to SoA to some degree. SURE we can find issues with SoJ and even some with SoE, but it's SoA's level of ridiculous decisions that damages SEGA's overall image that I'm so wound up about. I hear rumours that the whole Sonic Boom band has cost SEGA over 20 million dollars and I don't know how true it is but it doesn't seem so far fetched and its success hinged on a game they couldn't even bother to ship out without making sure it's not a shit game, let alone bug free... Which it bloody well isn't!
Sonic Boom could have been such a brilliant move. Or at least a really ambition project that could have put Sonic back into a more relevant position. Sonic has been tarnished so much over the years, that a re-birth like Sonic Boom could have been something very good for the brand. I personally was so excited to see a new vision of the characters, a new developer and even a tie in Cartoon and comics etc. While I still think the Cartoon looks quite good and could do well, it's such a shame that the game turned out like this. I mean, this is really something that Sega should have been paying the utmost attention to and GUARANTEED it was the best quality possible.
It really seems like the bet the farm on Sonic Boom but then couldn't be arsed to make sure the game was a success. Had I been in charge of a re-imagining and relaunch of the businesses major mascot, spawning several forms of media, I would make sure that the cornerstone of the endeavor, the actual game, was the best it could be.
I don't know if BRB were doing something amazing when they contracted them, but you'd think you wouldn't trust something like this to anyone but the most reliable developer. Shit, I would have gotten AM2 or Platinum to try it out. Not much experience in platformers sure, but good god they have nearly a flawless track record for quality.
tl;dr, I'm an AM2 fanboy.
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The problem is how they handle all the marketing and contacts with everybody who they make a deal to developed a game. Both SOJ and SOE had a really good way to do it, SOA doesn't.
I don't know who is in charge of this things in USA. It happen before, now and it could happen later. Danica Patrick in ASRT (2012), CM fiasco (2013) and now Boom games (2014) are clearly the examples of poor marketing decisions.
The good side of this? Maybe we could experience another time when a European president takes the lead in America and develop a handful of good PR and releases.
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Don't all western branches have to report to Jurgen Post of SOE currently though?
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I thought that was the case with the 2012 restructure..I've always wondered if SoA managed to get someone like Jason Rubin as president and if it would work. Yea, there was the whole THQ thing, but that was waaaay out of his control from what I've heard.
Was the Danica Patrick thing that bad of a decision? it didn't seem to help much but it didn't hurt them either (aside from her doing poorly in a race with the promotional car).
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THQ was more or less dead by the time they put Rubin up. Their stock was all but gone and they had laid off hundreds of workers. His job was to do what he could to keep the company stable and attactive and he did not fail in that regard, as IP and Studios fetched quite decent prices when they eventually collapsed.
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Barry please... When I helped create Segabits, long before you weaseled your way in. Swearing was a non-issue, we swore on the front page, we swore in the podcast. It's just a word. Segabits wasn't trying to be SEGA's little bitch, Playing the bitch is the reason both George and I lift SegaNerds and went our own way in the first place.
It isn't about the cursing really, its about someone that represents the site as an moderator to go out and literally tell a company which we cover to 'fuck themselves' because of something they did 5+ years ago.
Logic isn't there. Why isn't anyone talking about how there really hasn't been a SEGA America in years and is actually SEGA West, having the same President running both Europe and America? You praised this move when it happen, yet you seem to ignore it when you want to blame something solely on SOA.
Sonic Boom? Are we going to pretend that Sonic games are shitty because of SEGA America? Are we going to pretend that SOJ hasn't fucked up a ton of games which everyone here just happens to ignore and let slip?
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The problem is how they handle all the marketing and contacts with everybody who they make a deal to developed a game. Both SOJ and SOE had a really good way to do it, SOA doesn't.
I don't know who is in charge of this things in USA. It happen before, now and it could happen later. Danica Patrick in ASRT (2012), CM fiasco (2013) and now Boom games (2014) are clearly the examples of poor marketing decisions.
The good side of this? Maybe we could experience another time when a European president takes the lead in America and develop a handful of good PR and releases.
Is in it John chang in charge of SEGA america and Jurgen post in charge of SEGA europa?
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It isn't about the cursing really, its about someone that represents the site as an moderator to go out and literally tell a company which we cover to 'fuck themselves' because of something they did 5+ years ago.
I don't see why that's a problem. This is the forum, it wasn't an opinion piece on the front page, it's my personal opinion, on the forum.
And it very much was about the swearing, which is god damn ridiculous. You have to ask yourself why we actually have quite a few people on these forums! Why are they here and not on the official SEGA forums? This forum should be a good alternative to the SEGA.com forums where adult SEGA fans can come and chat shit, and yeah talk smack and have a rant every once in a while. That was what has always separating us from the official SEGA forums! Turning Segabits into SEGA's free PR machine was literally the shit that eventually turned SegaNerds into the crap it is today and the reason we both left...
Logic isn't there. Why isn't anyone talking about how there really hasn't been a SEGA America in years and is actually SEGA West, having the same President running both Europe and America? You praised this move when it happen, yet you seem to ignore it when you want to blame something solely on SOA.
Sonic Boom? Are we going to pretend that Sonic games are shitty because of SEGA America? Are we going to pretend that SOJ hasn't fucked up a ton of games which everyone here just happens to ignore and let slip?
Weather they report to SOE or not, something is clearly wrong with the project management. When SoE scooped up CA and Sports Interactive they had a plan to become something of a force in Europe. And are routinely making some pretty good moves with a few slip ups here and there. While SoA continues to slip up constantly with a few rare gems few and far between. What SoA needs is a clear strategy but for ages now it has seemed like they're just throwing shit at the wall and hoping something sticks.
As for Sonic Boom it's a colossal fuck up in my opinion, everything from the new character design, to the story, gameplay.... The entire package is an unnecessary waste of money. Was anyone excited for this when it was announced? Hell even the TV show which is quite good has been slightly tarnished by the shit sandwich that is the Sonic Boom game. And the game's are the one thing SEGA should have done right.
I'm simply incredibly frustrated with SoA spending so much money on such a colossal failure and on another new, unproven developer to develop a game in a series that should have SO MUCH more care taken over it...
Also, and I may well be wrong but doesn't SoE and SoA now both have separate presidents again and act somewhat separately? I feel like I remember being sad after reading it had gone back when Mike Hayes stepped down. I know when the press release from SEGA stating they were happy about Valkyria PC sales was released it was the SEGA Europe President who was credited not SEGA West.
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Sonic Boom band has cost SEGA over 20 million dollars and I don't know how true it is but it doesn't seem so far fetched and its success hinged on a game they couldn't even bother to ship out without making sure it's not a shit game, let alone bug free... Which it bloody well isn't!
It cost a fair bit, but don't put all the blame on SEGA America . Lots of focus groups said the 'Sonic' Brand was damaged and needed a outside developer to work on it and well that's what's happened and even that looks like it didn't work out . Also SEGA America put endless requests into SEGA Japan/Sonic Team to make just a solo Sonic game back in the XBox and 360/PS3 days , but all rejected by SOJ/Sonic Team . Only after the huge backlash to Sonic 06 and Sonic Unleashed did SOJ/ST really start to thing about making a main single Sonic game for the core series
And again Sonic all goes through SEGA Japan and Sonic Team -they're as much to blame in this mess too
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Sharky, can you just go make a new Sega site that's edgy and doesn't ride Sega's dick posting Sonic fucking Boom articles? I'm despising how mainstream this site is getting. Your posts in this thread nail everything.
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Sharky, can you just go make a new Sega site that's edgy and doesn't ride Sega's dick posting Sonic fucking Boom articles? I'm despising how mainstream this site is getting. Your posts in this thread nail everything.
I assume you're being sarcastic? I genuinely can't tell lol.
If you are or aren't the answer is the same. As much as I'm venting right now I love Segabits, it's a great site and I think all the contributors do a brilliant job. As much as I'd like to be a regular contributor again I simply can't a lot has changed in my personal life since we started this site. (Deaths in the family leading to falling out over various shit. A pretty gnarly break up and in and out of pretty crappy depressive phases.) On to of that I'm trying to get back into writing and art for books which takes up a lot of my free time.
I do love the site though, I just really hope we don't forget why we even started it... It was all about being opinionated and funny, putting our own spin on the news back then.
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I'm sorry, but we don't use that type of language on this forum, please edit your post or you will be reported.
And that's just putting it mildly(obviously jokin around)
I personally hope PC benefits them a lot so they can get back to business in... Well first localize the couple of games we didnt get, and new stuff. After valkyria's succes it should be the obvious thing to do. PC multiplats with the console(s). It seems their audience is reachable on steam compared to exclusive on a divided fanbase by platform
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I just wanted to throw my two cents in here and say that I really enjoy coming here because it isn't as strict as Sega Boards.
Just cause Sharky made a negative topic about Sega doesn't mean that we're all going to do the same. Nothing wrong with criticizing a Company that you're a huge fan of.
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Again: it isn't about the fucking language, I curse all the time. But why does it have to be a topic title? Why can't you just have normal topic titles? We just don't want everyone to start using curse words because you did in their titles. Imagine going to a forum that everyone just had "Valkyria Chronicles: What a shitty Namco game" and "Alien: Isolation - more like cunt faced bitches". Why not just have a normal title? Whats wrong with a normal title.
It isn't about criticizing SEGA. You guys are more than free to do so. I do it all the time. Just approach it a bit more subtle. There is a difference with criticizing and just sounding angry. Seriously, could you have thought of a better title than 'SEGA of America fucking sucks" regardless of your opinion?
I see you conveniently skipped the part where I stated SEGA of America doesn't exist anymore after it was renamed SEGA West along with SEGA Europe.
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I agree with Sharky that SegaBits forums need to be a place that allow more speech but I also really disagree that Sega of America is responsible for most of the issues in this thread. So much of it is guess work and what little we do know is massively in their favor over the Genesis/Saturn/Kalinske situations.
I also think the Marvel games could have been huge, if well developed. Look at the Batman games. They should have bought out Next Level Games (instead of Secret Level) and put those guys on all of them since their Captain America game was actually solid and they are a good developer. Now they make games for Nintendo instead but hindsight is 20/20.
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Yep but they did have some bad luck too. Like with Pandemic Studios war game paid for SEGA only for EA to buy the corp. The crucible was going to be a real fab game with some great idea's and plans and some good Producers behind it (Ex system shock developers/producers) but that didn't work out in the end .
Yes but it was many poor decisions in developers that effectively did him, in
No the Sonic spin off all have to go through SEGA Japan . To give one example SEGA America wanted to remake the GBA/DS Sonic games for the PSP but SEGA Japan and Sonic Team rejected the idea and instead came up with the Rivals concept . NiGHTS II was planed to be a 360 and PS3 game with amazing dream visuals and to use the On-line side for real world weather systems and what not. That was blocked by SOJ for being to costly and SOJ thinking 'NiGHTS' was a child based game and so should be made on the Wii instead .
TA i never said they didn't..but they were charged to reinvigorate old Sega IPs a bit like ATLUS is now and NIGHTS was one of them. And we had this argument before in another forum..and back then i was well connected with sources too...
The English dub was a mandate by SONY America and it was nothing SEGA America or Japan could do about it and as for the swearing that is something the Japanese team and Nagoshi-sand wanted to be put in.
But the marketing that happened was well of a confirmation of his fears..and the swearwords distracted everything.
No please don't hit back with saying all of the above is rubbish , Back in those days I used to know A senior producer at SEGA and its all true.
Not necessarily the NIGHTS one. As i said i went over with that with you years ago ...And as i said i had connections too.
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Sure you can. Sega is a giant company who should watch their investments closely. Think about how incompetent you have to even be to be hoodwinked by a business partner on this scale. The very fact that they can't/haven't taken legal action yet is them basically admitting they don't have a case to stand on. Fuck man, they even readily COMPENSATED people who sued for false advertising. Gearbox are crooks but SoA fucked up plain and simple as well.
Like i said it was a con job from the start..but of course be sure to place you're mis guided rage against Sega why don't you? That doesn't mean they were guilty or fucked up. They were conned. That's like saying to the old pensioner that she was the one who fucked up by being swindled by a Nigerian con artist over the telephone...
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I agree with Sharky that SegaBits forums need to be a place that allow more speech but I also really disagree that Sega of America is responsible for most of the issues in this thread. So much of it is guess work and what little we do know is massively in their favor over the Genesis/Saturn/Kalinske situations.
I also think the Marvel games could have been huge, if well developed. Look at the Batman games. They should have bought out Next Level Games (instead of Secret Level) and put those guys on all of them since their Captain America game was actually solid and they are a good developer. Now they make games for Nintendo instead but hindsight is 20/20.
Or common sense....
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Barry please... When I helped create Segabits, long before you weaseled your way in. Swearing was a non-issue, we swore on the front page, we swore in the podcast. It's just a word. Segabits wasn't trying to be SEGA's little bitch, Playing the bitch is the reason both George and I lift SegaNerds and went our own way in the first place.
You said weasel. :))
Police report shots fired in Jersey.
Isn't it right?
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True, but I thought Sharky was just letting off some steam, bennet.
I remember someone going on about 'THEY BOUGHT THEM FOR MIDDLE WARE!!!!'
and I was like 'WHAT THE FUCK IS MIDDLEWARE!?'
But okay, I didn't know they wanted them to make games from teh get go. They shouldn't have given those greenhorns good IPs like Golden Axe though. I still think the old Golden Axe games are dog-shit, but still, everyone seems to like them for some reason.
That was me..and i said they also brought them for their middle ware...
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The funny thing about Simon Jeffery, I thought his plan was solid. I mean, make Marvel movie games? This was announced before the whole big 'Avengers' thing, but I knew the movie franchises where going to be big. He just fucked up when it came to development, using studios that had no talent and not being able to make a marketable product in like 2 years of development time. But if Thor, Hulk, Captain America and Iron Man games where good, I could see them selling like 10+ million considering how popular the characters are and how much consoles they where on.
It was solid..and in a way it worked..Sega gained marketshare during his period which they managed to build on ever since. The problem was of course was his choice of developers...SHINY should not have been the guys to make GOLDEN COMPASS, Secret Level..was never really used properly..and shouldn't have been brought...Not really going for or backing the better smaller developers..Edge of reality Hulk game wasn't bad. Also too many contracts on too many games..compare to what SOE did..they brought two studios..and chose their small developer contracts wisely..they didn't over spend their budget..and they had little failure..in that same period...Sega japan was so impressed with one of their choices with the job they did with OUTRUN 2006 port..and we all know what happned there..too bad they didn't get purchased by Sega..
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I honestly can't tell if people really just want another site that talks about how SEGA is finished these days and we all cry and mourn the death of a publisher. I was getting annoyed with the site when it mostly covered Sonic articles a while back and I think that's a valid criticism but getting annoyed they're promoting a SEGA game? Come on, there's probably a bunch of other jaded SEGA fan site's out there.
And I swear people left SEGAnerds not for all the hyping of SEGA products but the fact the site become poorly run with countless ads and feeling like some sort of cheap flash game site.
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ROJM's and TA's formatting kinda hurts my eyes...
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Valkyria Chronicles port is awesome... So that's great :D
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ROJM's and TA's formatting kinda hurts my eyes...
Then you must be blind since there's nothing wrong with my formatting. But since you're blind ..glad to be of help...
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I see there is a bit of site discussion here, so I thought I'd address some things:
And I swear people left SEGAnerds not for all the hyping of SEGA products but the fact the site become poorly run with countless ads and feeling like some sort of cheap flash game site.
The Kartel and shitification of the forums is why I left Nerds as a reader.
Regarding "promoting SEGA's products" - when a new game is releasing we try our best to share trailers and important details as they release. Also, over the past year, we've had the opportunity to go hands on with games like Boom and Isolation at E3 and Comic Con and we've had unbiased previews written up in which the writers could say whatever they thought of the game, even if it meant hurting SEGA's feelings. We'll also be presenting unbiased reviews, and we have in the past given very poor scores to SEGA games despite our relationship with the company. The community team understands that we don't give their games a pass, if we hate a game we'll say it in the review or in an op-ed. But another important thing is that we try to present the news as news, such as a new trailer, saying "here is the new trailer, check it out and share your opinion" which is very different from "jesus, this trailer looks like shit, what the fuck are SEGA of America thinking? They need to fire all of their San Fran office." That sort of article writing is one reason SEGA cut ties with TSSZ.
It would also be unwise of the site to flat out ignore upcoming games because of some bias. Like "fuck SEGA of Japan. if they refuse to release Yakuza here, we're going to ignore it" or "Sonic Boom looks cheap, best to not post any news on it". I'll admit, though, that some titles get less coverage than we'd like, but that is mainly because we do not have somebody on the team who has a passion for them (pointing to the PC strategy games).
Re: too much Sonic coverage - if SEGA are releasing a lot of Sonic content, there is going to be an increase in Sonic news posts. Simple as that. As mentioned above, we are not going to hold off on reporting because we don't like the way the game looks, or because we posted a trailer earlier in the week. We have, however, tried to counter the amount of Sonic news with the theme weeks and months which drive original content towards other aspects of SEGA. Next year especially (save for one month) we'll have a lot of focus on other SEGA games outside of Sonic. We're also looking to adding new people to the team with interests outside of Sonic.
Re: the weaseling my way in statement - I'm going to ignore that you said that.
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Re: too much Sonic coverage - if SEGA are releasing a lot of Sonic content, there is going to be an increase in Sonic news posts. Simple as that. As mentioned above, we are not going to hold off on reporting because we don't like the way the game looks, or because we posted a trailer earlier in the week. We have, however, tried to counter the amount of Sonic news with the theme weeks and months which drive original content towards other aspects of SEGA. Next year especially (save for one month) we'll have a lot of focus on other SEGA games outside of Sonic. We're also looking to adding new people to the team with interests outside of Sonic.
That's alright Barry bumpkin that was an old criticism that was back in around 2013, since late 2013 the content has been a lot more varied and covers a wide range of SEGA news/games again so I'm fine with that. No problem with promoting Sonic Boom either, it was mostly original content that I had issues with.
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Well, if you love Sonic Boom content, stay tuned to Tuesday! ;)
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I see there is a bit of site discussion here, so I thought I'd address some things:
The Kartel and shitification of the forums is why I left Nerds as a reader.
Regarding "promoting SEGA's products" - when a new game is releasing we try our best to share trailers and important details as they release. Also, over the past year, we've had the opportunity to go hands on with games like Boom and Isolation at E3 and Comic Con and we've had unbiased previews written up in which the writers could say whatever they thought of the game, even if it meant hurting SEGA's feelings. We'll also be presenting unbiased reviews, and we have in the past given very poor scores to SEGA games despite our relationship with the company. The community team understands that we don't give their games a pass, if we hate a game we'll say it in the review or in an op-ed. But another important thing is that we try to present the news as news, such as a new trailer, saying "here is the new trailer, check it out and share your opinion" which is very different from "jesus, this trailer looks like shit, what the fuck are SEGA of America thinking? They need to fire all of their San Fran office." That sort of article writing is one reason SEGA cut ties with TSSZ.
It would also be unwise of the site to flat out ignore upcoming games because of some bias. Like "fuck SEGA of Japan. if they refuse to release Yakuza here, we're going to ignore it" or "Sonic Boom looks cheap, best to not post any news on it". I'll admit, though, that some titles get less coverage than we'd like, but that is mainly because we do not have somebody on the team who has a passion for them (pointing to the PC strategy games).
Re: too much Sonic coverage - if SEGA are releasing a lot of Sonic content, there is going to be an increase in Sonic news posts. Simple as that. As mentioned above, we are not going to hold off on reporting because we don't like the way the game looks, or because we posted a trailer earlier in the week. We have, however, tried to counter the amount of Sonic news with the theme weeks and months which drive original content towards other aspects of SEGA. Next year especially (save for one month) we'll have a lot of focus on other SEGA games outside of Sonic. We're also looking to adding new people to the team with interests outside of Sonic.
Re: the weaseling my way in statement - I'm going to ignore that you said that.
The only thing that worries me is that Sega have pre-approved questions for things like Sonic Boom. I worry it'll turn the interview into a PR piece. Either way, I rarely visit the front page because most news isn't of interest to me (figures, Sonic, obscure Japanese stuff, Wiki random article of the day) but that's most likely because most of Sega's output doesn't interest me anymore. *Sigh*
As for the Weaseling into things, don't take it as an insult. Weaseling into things is what seperates us from the animals. Except for the weasel.
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The only thing that worries me is that Sega have pre-approved questions for things like Sonic Boom. I worry it'll turn the interview into a PR piece. Either way, I rarely visit the front page because most news isn't of interest to me (figures, Sonic, obscure Japanese stuff, Wiki random article of the day) but that's most likely because most of Sega's output doesn't interest me anymore. *Sigh*
We submitted our own questions and they approved all but a few, and those that didn't get approved were more along the lines of the Japanese localization and scrapped concepts - which I can understand why they would not share ideas they have but didn't use, as they might want to use them in the future.
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I haven't read all the comments here, but I think it's easy to criticize a company when you don't take into consideration that there are people working there, trying to do a good job and often putting in a lot more work hours than they need to. If these people then read comments from people saying that they should be fired, well, I think it's safe to say that's not particularly motivating. Where is PSO 2? I don't know the details, but I think that they genuinely want to release the game, and that they'd like to tell us what's going on but can't due to internal policies. Obviously something went wrong. Sega West have had repeated layoffs over the past years and probably have considerably less resources than before. The fact that it hasn't been canceled tells me that they still believe there's a chance they can release it.
Personally, even after starting Segalization, I never attempted to hide my opinion on Sega's decision making. I often went into debates with people from Sega's community team on the official forum. That's never been a problem, on the contrary, they seem to appreciate the input. And talking to the individuals working at Sega also gave me more insight in the difficulties they have in their attempts to give the fans what they want. A lot of things we ask them to do may seem easy to us, while the reality might be completely different. That insight changed the way I write some articles on Segalization, but I believe that's a good thing.
I regard this website as the most professional Sega fansite around exactly because they remain respectful both towards the fans and towards the people at Sega. Barry's reason for changing the thread title seems justified to me, I wouldn't want a topic like this on the main page of my website either. Not in the least because there are a lot of people working at Sega of America that really don't deserve this kind of insult.
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I assume you're being sarcastic? I genuinely can't tell lol.
Dead serious, and eh I suppose you're right but I just don't like the direction the site's going in.
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Dead serious, and eh I suppose you're right but I just don't like the direction the site's going in.
Surprised to hear this. I think some of the best stuff the site has done as of recent was secure interviews with people like the ODCM team, Tom & Al, authors, indie devs, and SEGA staff. Also there's the whole SEGA Retro wiki that we plan to integrate, bringing a ton of cool historical data to the site. I don't understand the desire to have us ignore newsing current games just because people hate them - Sonic Boom in particular - or the need for snark-infused news articles. Wouldn't an increase in op-eds be better, as you get the latest stuff happening and writer's takes on it?
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Ironic Sharky, that you are the one to talk about how people should have free speech, I have never banned anyone on the forums outside of Kogen. If anything, you where the one that wanted to ban someone weekly for having a 'sega sucks' attitude (aka sega sucks as in SEGA Japan, which you disagree with).
No one here has asked you to change your opinion, just the title. We left it, where is all the censorship people on here are talking about?
I haven't even reviewed Boom yet and somehow ... people are assuming I like it. Oh man, check the front page for my review early this week.
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If I think about it really only Sega of America did shitty stuff...
Europe and Japan's crappy stuff is limited to...Sonic, Monkey Ball being mediocore, the bad Sega Ages releases, Project Altered Beast, and the Shining series departure.
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I still consider the selling of Sega Racing Studio to be titanically baffling on SOE's part.
Sega Studios Australia's eventual demise over the Stormrise bomb was also a bitter pill to swallow.
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Ironic Sharky, that you are the one to talk about how people should have free speech, I have never banned anyone on the forums outside of Kogen. If anything, you where the one that wanted to ban someone weekly for having a 'sega sucks' attitude (aka sega sucks as in SEGA Japan, which you disagree with).
Who? When? please list them because this is genuinely not true... I actually fought to keep everyone on this forum and ban absolutely nobody unless necessary. In fact I had the power to ban people and I literally never banned anyone... I even went out of my way to preview every single one of 'Fluffys' posts before he made it just so he wasn't banned, despite somebody PMing me every other day to ban him.... And as soon as that some body became an Admin, Fluffy was banned within 3 days.
And frankly I didn't like the guy any more than anyone else, but to say I wanted to ban people? Bullshit mate.
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Not going to fight about that, I just don't give a shit if you did or didn't. Regardless, there have only been three people banned on the site and it had nothing to do with 'freedom of speech', so stating that people are being censored here, is a bit insulting.
Now you are pretending that you fought us on our tyrannical moderation, Jesus...
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What... Where are you getting this from?! I have neither said people were banned over 'freedom of speech' didn't even hint at it, not sure where you got that from.
I didn't say people are being censored either, I'm only saying that when we started out it wasn't like this... When I left SegaNerds its because I fell out with Chris over my Iron Man 2 review, in fact he gave me an alternative of either sending a written apology to SEGA or leaving... I left, because fuck that! I'm not going to be apologetic over my opinion of a game that genuinely was a load of shit. I'm not going to hide the fact that I dislike that now my topic title was changed too 'Shark's corner of negativity' to basically downplay my opinion. That feels a little too far from when we were on MSN bouncing ideas around about how to make the best SEGA blog a few years ago.
And I haven't said anything about tyrannical moderation... I don't think that at all, but if you're going to paint me like a bad guy I'll argue my case, of course. Fluffy was a cunt, I hated him but I genuinely didn't want to ban anyone from the forum in those early days, and people were giving me shit, like I was giving him chances because I liked him or favored him... We fucking hated each other.
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Anyway if we're going to talk about this any further, facebook me.
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Now, please dont argue for Fluff's sake, no one likes that dude, he's always been an ass, even on Sega Boards.
I will say this though, I don't mind what is being shown on the front page(although I don't view it too often). I can at least appreciate that the games being shown vary in popularity. I can't stand Sonic games anymore, but I do want to know what the deal is with Boom. I will trust that as a professional, George will be honest on what he truly things of Boom when reviewing his game.
Let's all take a deep breath and continue to discuss why we either love or hate Sega. Like I've said before, I've been on Sega boards for almost a decade and I'd like to continue to come here for that long as well.
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I agree with Piro in regards to stop taking digs at each other. Let's try and be positive. I know there is a lot of passionate feelings going around but that would be stuff best discussed in private, like Sharky suggested.
So let's either get back on topic, or we should probably close this topic before it turns nasty. No need to keep taking digs at each other.
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Yes but it was many poor decisions in developers that effectively did him
Oh yeah tried to do too many things all at the same time, but there was some bad luck . Like with war game deal with Pandemic only for EA come along and buy them out .
TA i never said they didn't..but they were charged to reinvigorate old Sega IPs a bit like ATLUS is now and NIGHTS was one of them
You know full well that anything Sonic and anything to do with the Sonic Team goes through SEGA Japan . No doubt in the future Iizuki-san will do a interview and reveal what he really had planned for NiGHTS II and that it was to lead on the 360 and big a Big Budget AAA game, but the board of SEGA Japan thought NiGHTS was child based game and that meant it should be only on the Wii . Never mind that the kids who bought NiGHTS in the 1st place(on the Saturn) would now be adults and that the next gen systems (as the 360 and PS3 then was) were far better able to release a dream world - All these points were made to SOJ and all fell on death ears sadly :( .
But the marketing that happened was well of a confirmation of his fears
The Dubbing that was a SONY America demand and request and there was nothing at all SEGA could do about it . The swearing is something the Japanese team wanted to be put in , but maybe SOA went a bit OTT with it.
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Oh yeah tried to do too many things all at the same time, but there was some bad luck . Like with war game deal with Pandemic only for EA come along and buy them out .
Why repeat the same thing again..no one said it wasn't true...but bad luck or things not going to plan is expected in this business...Pandemic..bad luck..even though Sega could have reached some deal with them like they had with WB who owned CONDEMNED and the developers behind it. But the point is there was too many bad decisions anyway so when something bad happened it was always going to fail and the whole thing came crashing down..which is what eventually happened to Jeffery..too bad becaue there was some good games on the pipeline...
You know full well that anything Sonic and anything to do with the Sonic Team goes through SEGA Japan . No doubt in the future Iizuki-san will do a interview and reveal what he really had planned for NiGHTS II and that it was to lead on the 360 and big a Big Budget AAA game, but the board of SEGA Japan thought NiGHTS was child based game and that meant it should be only on the Wii . Never mind that the kids who bought NiGHTS in the 1st place(on the Saturn) would now be adults and that the next gen systems (as the 360 and PS3 then was) were far better able to release a dream world - All these points were made to SOJ and all fell on death ears sadly
Geez.. i never said SOJ didn't approve of anything..just that SOA screwed up with SONIC and the SOJ IP deal And this is coming from someone who didn't mind SONIC RIVALS.
Izuka san says lots of things..most of it is BS. NIGHTS 2 was always going to be a Wii game..if he didn't think that then he's more stupid than i thought he wasizuki-san. Sega in their history as a third party up to that point had never put a mascot kiddie game on the main systems..outside of SONIC..only on Nintendo. So this whole NIGHTS 2 coming for 360 is blauderdash.
but maybe SOA went a bit OTT with it.
Course they did and you know it and Nagoshi knew it. YAKUZA was not the game he wanted portrayed with the dub release. And really Japan don't have a problem with swearing in their culture..and the culture that YAKUZA is based from is more risque than the game ever showed..i'm surprised we haven't had the lesbian frontal breast tatooed girls with schoolgirl or traditional japanese or prison attire with a sword with blood and she is licking from it. YAKUZA is quite tame for a japanese person compared to the cinema and novels of that genre...
So the game is quite tame..i very much doubt that the games would have anything more than borderline swearing since Nag ..is in a position to do anything he wants...
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What... Where are you getting this from?! I have neither said people were banned over 'freedom of speech' didn't even hint at it, not sure where you got that from.
I didn't say people are being censored either, I'm only saying that when we started out it wasn't like this... When I left SegaNerds its because I fell out with Chris over my Iron Man 2 review, in fact he gave me an alternative of either sending a written apology to SEGA or leaving... I left, because fuck that! I'm not going to be apologetic over my opinion of a game that genuinely was a load of shit. I'm not going to hide the fact that I dislike that now my topic title was changed too 'Shark's corner of negativity' to basically downplay my opinion. That feels a little too far from when we were on MSN bouncing ideas around about how to make the best SEGA blog a few years ago.
Well if that happened good for you..there's no way you can continue to be called a fan site and be in Sega's pocket at the same time.And i have to agree with Shark...negativity gives the wrong impression..and not taking the topic seriously..its a genuine concern..to many people..especially SOA position in Sega history. But Fkng wasn't great either...SOA a history of bad decisions or something similar or Why does SOA screw up..or i hate the modern SOA would have been better and to the point...without really offending anyone.
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but bad luck or things not going to plan is expected in this business...Pandemic..bad luck..even though Sega could have reached some deal with them like they had with WB
You can't plan for things that are unforeseen. There wasn't any hint of EA buying up Pandemic, just like there wasn't any hint that EA and the NFL would do any exclusive deal . SEGA and Pandemic done a nice deal to make a nice war game and sadly EA spoilt all that, but these things happen.
And this is coming from someone who didn't mind SONIC RIVALS.
SOA idea was far better , Having all the GBA Sonic games remade with 3D polygons graphics (sort like Ghost N Goblins for the PSP). I think that's how Blackdone even won the contract to develop the game was by remaking part of the GBA Sonic game with polygons graphics .
SEGA Japan and ST though that every new Sonic game on a different systems had to be a brand new game in its own right.
[size=0pt]Izuka san says lots of things..most of it is BS. NIGHTS 2 was always going to be a Wii game..if he didn't think that then he's more stupid than i thought he wasizuki-san. Sega in their history as a third party up to that point had never put a mascot kiddie game on the main systems[/size]
Sigh... Iizuki-san is the main man with NiGHTS and Sonic (32Bit days and on) It was meant to be 360 (it was the lead platform) and there was even a demo build of the game. Sadly SEGA Japan mistakenly thought NiGHTS was a kids game and thought it be better on the Wii. And No, sorry SEGA Japan does put their some of their mascot or liked characters on other systems that are not seen as Kids like Toe Jam and Earl on the XBox, Super Monkeyball on XBox and PS2 or even VF Quest on the PS2.
Course they did and you know it and Nagoshi knew it. YAKUZA was not the game he wanted portrayed with the dub release.
Nagoshi-San and the Japanese wanted the swearing in, The English dub that was something that SEGA couldn't do nothing about sadly as SONY America at the time were of the thinking that American's didn't like reading subs when playing games.
Anyway, it's not like it's just SEGA America or Japan that have made plenty of mess up's or still do . The amount of mess ups SEGA Europe made with the DC is almost with-out equal and really painful to list, but some of the real stand out beauties are: Spending over half the £100 Million PR budget on sponsoring loads of Football teams, while not making sure to have AAA football game to call it own, Thinking it was better to advertise Soul Calibur on national (the best looking game on any Platform at the time) by showing someone sending a e-mail through the DC WTF ?, Thinking it be better to launch Virtual Tennis during the New York Open rather than during Wimbledon, buying no Clinch only to close the studio after one game -same goes for the Rally Studio set up under huge expense
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You can't plan for things that are unforeseen. There wasn't any hint of EA buying up Pandemic, just like there wasn't any hint that EA and the NFL would do any exclusive deal . SEGA and Pandemic done a nice deal to make a nice war game and sadly EA spoilt all that, but these things happen.
Never said it wasn't..but things went wrong during several eras of Sega...but they had a strong business plan that could counter and survive it. Jeffery's plan wasn't strong enough and it wasn't a good one. Sega Europe had plenty of things going wrong like the closure of the racing studio but they still had made good decisions and a better business plan under Hayes to weather it.
SOA idea was far better , Having all the GBA Sonic games remade with 3D polygons graphics (sort like Ghost N Goblins for the PSP). I think that's how Blackdone even won the contract to develop the game was by remaking part of the GBA Sonic game with polygons graphics .
Maybe.
Sigh... Iizuki-san is the main man with NiGHTS and Sonic (32Bit days and on) It was meant to be 360 (it was the lead platform) and there was even a demo build of the game. Sadly SEGA Japan mistakenly thought NiGHTS was a kids game and thought it be better on the Wii. And No, sorry SEGA Japan does put their some of their mascot or liked characters on other systems that are not seen as Kids like Toe Jam and Earl on the XBox, Super Monkeyball on XBox and PS2 or even VF Quest on the PS2.
By the time NIGHTS came around they were. Talkiing about the Ps2 and Xbox era when Sega was finding its feet as a third party hardly proves you're point. By the 360 era..Sega was releasing those type of games soley on Nintendo platforms... so there was no way in logic that Sonic Team failure san could have thought that NIGHTS was going to be a 360 game. So let's not buy into the fantasy.
Nagoshi-San and the Japanese wanted the swearing in, The English dub that was something that SEGA couldn't do nothing about sadly as SONY America at the time were of the thinking that American's didn't like reading subs when playing games.
And i agreeded they went OVER THE TOP..which you yourself said they did. Also YAKUZA could easily include swearing considering the genre its based on. Yet that hasn't really happened. So i can't see Nagoshi really wanted swearing in the game when he could easily include it in his titles..Japan does not have an aversion to swearwords or other things in their games.
Anyway, it's not like it's just SEGA America or Japan that have made plenty of mess up's or still do . The amount of mess ups SEGA Europe made with the DC is almost with-out equal and really painful to list, but some of the real stand out beauties are: Spending over half the £100 Million PR budget on sponsoring loads of Football teams, while not making sure to have AAA football game to call it own, Thinking it was better to advertise Soul Calibur on national (the best looking game on any Platform at the time) by showing someone sending a e-mail through the DC WTF ?, Thinking it be better to launch Virtual Tennis during the New York Open rather than during Wimbledon, buying no Clinch only to close the studio after one game -same goes for the Rally Studio set up under huge expense
The VIRTUA TENNIS was a mssing point for sure. But that of course was when everyone in Sega was messing up during the DC era..and plenty of the titles could have easily sold if they matched the campaign right. Marvel Vs Capcom is a great example...if Sega marketed that title with Capcom and used Stan Lee to appear in the advert..it really could have stood out.