The DC opened the door for Xbox...

[ROJM]

I think it was more do with the fact that the PS sold so well in Japan and Japanese just wanted to buy its successor and they knew it had the support of Square and Enix - Massive blows to SEGA.

Partly but that was the incentive to bring in joe bloggs who hadn't got a PSX to get the PS2.

Its not found out . SEGA got smashed to bits for the expense of the Saturn and Mega CD at retail . One of the mistakes they weren't going to make again was a High retail price at launch . That meant the DVD wasn't a goer from the get go

Like i said it was a discussion they went back to during the genesis of the DC. 

Only FPS really . The other big sellers like 3rd person shooters and GTA were already out on the PS and PS2 No casuals don't buy games week in week out, Die-Hards do. That's why the XBox still had decent support from 3rd parties and systems like Wii had poor 3rd party support (despite massive sales) It was, but if it was the 1st next gen  system to have FF 10, Fifa, Madden, MGS II and GTA III it might have been different . 

Obviously but the point is the type of audience the Xbox managed to bring in or started to appeal to ended up becoming the dominant trend and gamer in today's market. It wasn't that long from the DC's demise to the Xbox being released and starting to get that audience..even though it struggled. I'm sure Sega may have benefited from that market at least. its not the first time Sega didn't have the big games from third parties and managed to make do and survive..

[Team Andromeda]

Partly but that was the incentive to bring in joe bloggs who hadn't got a PSX to get the PS2

Well by then the PS sold some 80 odd million consoles , so that's  a lot of Joe's that could be ready to upgrade and then you had all the hype of a machine that was so powerful with clever named chips (emotion engine) and the bull crap hype of Iraq buying loads of the consoles and the PS2 being able to render Toy Story in real time


Bullshit hype which sadly joe bloggs like to fall for .

discussion they went back to during the genesis of the D

Yes but with one key difference . SEGA sold the Mega Drive at cost price , from the start SEGA were taking a loss for every DC sold .

its not the first time Sega didn't have the big games from third parties and managed to make do and survive..

Yes but in the Saturn and DC days is when games budgets and team sizes started to shoot up and so that meant games had to sell well to return a profit and with out the likes of Madden on the MD it would have never sold as well as it did

[ROJM]

Well by then the PS sold some 80 odd million consoles , so that's  a lot of
Joe's that could be ready to upgrade and then you had all the hype of a machine
that was so powerful with clever named chips (emotion engine) and the bull crap
hype of Iraq buying loads of the consoles and the PS2 being able to render Toy
Story in real time

Yes and the sad thing was many so called gamers brought into the hype as well. I remeber this guy actually quoting some thing from the financial times that the PS2 had the tech to guide a missle....

Yes but with one key difference .
SEGA sold the Mega Drive at cost price , from the start SEGA were taking a loss
for every DC sold .

Yes and that isn't in dispute. but you must remember corporations when planning something never set things in stone, discussions would have taken place on a many options.

Yes but in the Saturn and DC days
is when games budgets and team sizes started to shoot up and so that meant games
had to sell well to return a profit and with out the likes of Madden on the MD
it would have never sold as well as it did

I don't believe that about EA. Its debatable that if they weren't on Sega MD that they may not have found the audience that they enjoyed...especially when Sega was really forced to accept EA because of pirate issues..

[Team Andromeda]

Yes and the sad thing was many so called gamers brought into the hype as well.

Yes it was killer and bad times , worst still was how much the press fell for it too .

but you must remember corporations when planning something never set things in stone

Yes there's always changes in most consoles , but DVD really wasn't a option for the DC at that time

Its debatable that if they weren't on Sega MD that they may not have found the audience that they enjoyed

EA helped to sell the MD in the west . Madden 92 was massive , PGA Golf and EA Hockey also getting rave reviews and sales  add in the Desert Strike series, Road Rash and then the massive seller that was FIFA . EA did wonders on the MD and really helped it gain a foothold over the Snes in the West

[ROJM]

Yes there's always changes in most consoles , but DVD really wasn't a option for the DC at that time

It was an option they discussed.

EA helped to sell the MD in the west . Madden 92 was massive , PGA Golf and EA Hockey also getting rave reviews and sales  add in the Desert Strike series, Road Rash and then the massive seller that was FIFA . EA did wonders on the MD and really helped it gain a foothold over the Snes in the West

I know that but EA didn't push the MD sales and they were on the MD from day one. It was Kalinske,the marketing campaign and key sega titles that really pushed the machines sales over the million mark and beyond.EA just gave the system depth and appeal to the older gamer. The point is whether EA needed sega or sega needed EA. I'm not going to say that EA saved Sega because they didn't. At the end of the day they benefited by becoming the biggest third party around but they needed Sega to do it because it was the perfect avenue to get to the type of consumer they needed. if there was no MD than they wouldn't have been able to achieve that..

[Team Andromeda]

It was an option they discussed.

Yes it was , but then it was dropped due the costs

I know that but EA didn't push the MD sales and they were on the MD from day one

Well no , EA didn't have a contract or licence to make MD software 


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It was Kalinske,the marketing campaign and key sega titles that really pushed the machines sales over the million mark and beyond.EA

Forget the [/font]marketing campaign, with out Sonic or John Madden 92 The Mega Drive would never have sold as well as it did in America . John Madden 92 . Sure with Sonic alone the MD would have sold loads, but EA support really helped the MD outsell the Snes in America and also did wonder with FIFA in Europe . Fifa lauch day was one of the 1st times I saw people cuing in the shops for a game in the UK  . [/font]
[/size]


[/size]

[ROJM]

Yes it was , but then it was dropped due the costs

Yes it was dismissed, cost was really an excuse in my opinion. They did look into the DVD option again and then it was clear that the cost may hamper development. But it was a serious consideration.That's a fact. If you won't accept that fact that's really not my problem.

Well no , EA didn't have a contract or license to make MD software 

They were still on the MD from the early stages. I never said they had a license. Stop trying to make me a fool and add things i never even stated.

Forget the marketing campaign, with out Sonic or John Madden 92 The Mega Drive would never have sold as well as it did in America . John Madden 92 . Sure with Sonic alone the MD would have sold loads, but EA support really helped the MD outsell the Snes in America and also did wonder with FIFA in Europe . Fifa lauch day was one of the 1st times I saw people cuing in the shops for a game in the UK  .

Without the marketing campaign, not many people would have considered Sega as an option in the United States. That's a fact. As for Madden 2 and FIFA...That came later. But the point you are missing was that the megadrive was the perfect vehicle for EA to establish themselves. They certainly wouldn't have been able to do it for PC or other systems like the Amiga(god bless your soul) and so on...

[Team Andromeda]

Yes it was dismissed, cost was really an excuse in my opinion.

No really DVD players cost over £400 at the time  That was too much for either for SEGA to take a hit on or put onto the retail price of the DC .

They were still on the MD from the early stages.

Yeah after contract talks and EA played dirty and reversed engineered the MD. Maddeh 2 came out in 1991 and unless you got a product people want silk adverts will make no difference.


SEGA spent a bomb pushing Greendog and nobody wanted it. SEGA Europe spent a fortune on the Mega CD launch - with the most expensive advert ever (for a console product at the time) and the Mega CD hardly sold well in Europe .

But the point you are missing was that the megadrive was the perfect vehicle for EA to establish themselves

No I know. I might hate Trip  but he was far from dull and new consoles were the way to go for the big bucks

[ROJM]

No really DVD players cost over £400 at the time  That was too much for either for SEGA to take a hit on or put onto the retail price of the DC .

But they still considered it as an option. Its not like the option of lending money, raising capital and other stuff a corporation explores wasn't on the table or that they couldn't do it. All i said was they took DVD more seriously after initially dismissing it. Now that's my final word on the matter....

Yeah after contract talks and EA played dirty and reversed engineered the MD. Maddeh 2 came out in 1991 and unless you got a product people want silk adverts will make no difference.

Like i said i know that already..who doesn't?! Point is advertising does help. The Genesis does, adverts did well but it only helped the machine to launch and sell half the number Sega wanted to make in the states. Sega under Kalinske made sure it got to that level so it does help. And of course without the product you don't have anything but you have to catch their eye towards the product in the first place...

SEGA spent a bomb pushing Greendog and nobody wanted it. SEGA Europe spent a fortune on the Mega CD launch - with the most expensive advert ever (for a console product at the time) and the Mega CD hardly sold well in Europe

Greendog did sell actually just not to Sonic level expectations. The MCD also sold ok in europe and worldwide enough to convince everyone else that CD based systems was the way to go...

No I know. I might hate Trip  but he was far from dull and new consoles were the way to go for the big bucks

That's the point i've been making. EA needed Sega more than they needed him. Remember the 3DO which ultimately bombed? EA couldn't save that. So its hardly true that EA could help sell systems back then..people were more brand orientated than third party orientated during the golden age..in the PSX era is where EA really become more of a household name..

[Team Andromeda]

But they still considered it as an option

Of coruse and if SEGA could have afford it , it would have been there .

The MCD also sold ok in europe and worldwide enough to convince everyone else that CD based systems was the way to go...

C'Mon the Mega CD sold like crap in Japan, sold poor in Europe but did ok in the USA.

EA needed Sega more than they needed him.

Yes but it's kind of ironic that SEGA helped to make EA into the powerhouse they are today .

Remember the 3DO which ultimately bombed? EA couldn't save that.

Nobody could when you're asking 700 dollars per unit .
 

[ROJM]

Of coruse and if SEGA could have afford it , it would have been there .

Of course. No one is disputing the costs reasoning. All i said from the beginning was it was defiantly looked at again before they decided logistically and financially it wasn't viable. But in my opinion that was down to the idiot management in not looking at it properly in the first place...

C'Mon the Mega CD sold like crap in Japan, sold poor in Europe but did ok in the USA.

MCD did well in europe specifically in germany and the UK. Japan the MD and MCD didn't sell well but it sold good enough to help further the careers of certain third party developers on that system ...who made their name on that system alone like Game arts...

Yes but it's kind of ironic that SEGA helped to make EA into the powerhouse they are today .

Well that is a discussion for another time..and the ungrateful bastards that EA were...even MONTANA and MADDEN had closer ties than you'd think...

Nobody could when you're asking 700 dollars per unit .

Which they sure people would pay for because they thought multimedia was the future of home gaming and adult gaming would drive the sales in the future...they got half of that right...but EA wasn't strong enough to help that system..neither was Capcom...

[Team Andromeda]

Of course. No one is disputing the costs reasoning. All i said from the beginning was it was defiantly looked at again

Well at the start of a  console's design there's always a blank sheet , so to speak.

MCD did well in europe specifically in germany and the UK. Japan the MD and MCD didn't sell well but it sold good enough to help further the careers of certain third party developers on that system ...who made their name on that system alone like Game arts.

Mega CD didn't do great in Europe at all and its software sales made up something like 2% of the console sales . It only did ok in the USA and there's always developers that can make their name on a niche console .. Crystal Dynamics started life has a 3DO only developer after all  .

Well that is a discussion for another time..and the ungrateful bastards that EA were

Its called big business. Sony and MS have all used SEGA over the years sadly 

Which they sure people would pay for because they thought multimedia[/size] [/color][/size][size=78%]][/size]

3DO had a floored  concept of expecting the Hardware manufacturers to take a hit, while getting none of the Software royalties from software sales .




 

[ROJM]

Well at the start of a  console's design there's always a blank sheet , so to speak.

You don't say

Mega CD didn't do great in Europe at all and its software sales made up something like 2% of the console sales . It only did ok in the USA and there's always developers that can make their name on a niche console .. Crystal Dynamics started life has a 3DO only developer after all  .

I wouldn't and its hardly the same..the 3DO didn't last long compared to the MCD in japan and europe..


Its

called big business. Sony and MS have all used SEGA over the years sadly 

Call it what you will i call it stabbing in the back. EA wasn't a big company at the time of Genesis. The only became one during and after the fact. Without the system EA wouldn't have gotten as massive as they did.








 

[Centrale]

EA wasn't a big company at the time of Genesis. The only became one during and after the fact. Without the system EA wouldn't have gotten as massive as they did.

I have to take exception to this. Electronic Arts made a huge impact on the game industry right from their start, and were massively successful already in the home computer market before transitioning into consoles. It was this success that enabled them to get their exceptional licensing and manufacturing deal with Sega for the Genesis... basically they were going to pull a Tengen and release unlicensed games if Sega didn't play along with EA's terms. Ultimately the special deal was worked out and it was clearly very beneficial for both parties.

[ROJM]

I have to take exception to this. Electronic Arts made a huge impact on the game industry right from their start, and were massively successful already in the home computer market before transitioning into consoles. It was this success that enabled them to get their exceptional licensing and manufacturing deal with Sega for the Genesis... basically they were going to pull a Tengen and release unlicensed games if Sega didn't play along with EA's terms. Ultimately the special deal was worked out and it was clearly very beneficial for both parties.

Take exception, i just don't think without genesis that they would have gotten any bigger than they had..and no EA didn't make a big impact..i 'd say half the sega games and capcom games available in the first year made the impact. It sure didn't draw people to buy Genesis because EA was on it. But it is just my opinion after all..