Author Topic: The weak arm becomes the weak finger: 300 Jobs cut at Sega America  (Read 117710 times)

Offline Team Andromeda

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Re: The weak arm becomes the weak finger: 300 Jobs cut at Sega America
« Reply #195 on: February 09, 2015, 03:41:27 pm »
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Content is video games, we are talking about new content

And there's none of that in Yakuza on the PS4 . It's no different from the likes of Gun being on the 360 - It was just the Xbox version running in higher res- The game and the games content was exactly the same otherwise and I'll say again content doesn't make a game original . A original game or original content is something we haven't seen before . A copy of a painting is hardly original now is it .

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The Last of Us remastered is not a new game = not new content, that's why I excluded Puyo Tetris from the new content moniker. This is not difficult to understand
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Yes Last of Us on the PS4 isn't new and just a port and Yakuza Ishi on the PS4 is just that a PS3 game running on the PS4.

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You're kidding yourself if you disagree with my point that Japanese publishers in general aren't heading this direction and are going to centralise around a few select IPs

Konami seems to be going into that direction , with if anything a bigger and more successful digital mobile arm. The others are still investing heavily in next gen gaming and engines . Its not like any of the major corps be that in the west aren't on mobile's (EA does better than SEGA on the mobile after all) but they also make sure that they have major AAA console productions , unlike SEGA Japan that seems more and more focus on the mobile .

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Electronic Art's losses were not due to just those deals, an accumulated $1.5 billion in the red isn't down to any deal making

Rubbish . The NFL deal alone cost EA $300 million dollars , EA then spend over $860 million on getting Bioware and Pandemic . That's near enough $1.5 billion there . Now the NFL deal and the likes of the Bioware deals are paying off and EA

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There's clearly more than 70 titles in 2009 and probably over 100 different skus

Lol so we're reduce to counting the same game that just happens to appear on different formats and mobile and tablet games . Well on that score EA are making more than 10 or 15 games a year even now .

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To purchase SEGA Sammy Nintendo would have to spend far in excess of the $4 billion I quoted, that'd probably be just for the SEGA part of the company,

NCL can from its cash reserves  alone and you know it, not that it would want to . When it comes to cash in the bank , NCL are better than most , even Sammy .






 
 

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Offline George

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Re: The weak arm becomes the weak finger: 300 Jobs cut at Sega America
« Reply #196 on: February 09, 2015, 04:04:16 pm »
I think Nintendo fans are always lining up to kiss their ass, Nintendo has way better PR and can really convince people of shitty things. Like their new YouTube revenue 'sharing' (aka taking) program. I have seen lots of fans justify it as 'Well, at least now we can stream Nintendo Let's Plays, unlike the past, so this is good.'

Not to mention, if Nintendo makes a bad game it either isn't complained about as much as SEGA or its a 'underrated' gem to Nintendo fans. Like Mario Sunshine? Come on. Even their New Super Mario Bros games have really mediocre level design.

Offline Radrappy

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Re: The weak arm becomes the weak finger: 300 Jobs cut at Sega America
« Reply #197 on: February 09, 2015, 04:10:29 pm »
Uhhhh Mario Sunshine, for all the hate it gets(which by the way is usually based around the game's reliance on FLUDD) is way better than any 3d Sonic game.  Period.   

Offline George

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Re: The weak arm becomes the weak finger: 300 Jobs cut at Sega America
« Reply #198 on: February 09, 2015, 04:36:53 pm »
Its better than Generations? Your delusional. That game is really bad. Maybe you just don't like 3D sonic games. But Generations was a better 3D sonic game than Mario Sunshine was a a 3D Mario game.


Offline Aki-at

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Re: The weak arm becomes the weak finger: 300 Jobs cut at Sega America
« Reply #199 on: February 09, 2015, 05:40:17 pm »
And there's none of that in Yakuza on the PS4 . It's no different from the likes of Gun being on the 360 - It was just the Xbox version running in higher res- The game and the games content was exactly the same otherwise and I'll say again content doesn't make a game original . A original game or original content is something we haven't seen before . A copy of a painting is hardly original now is it .
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Your AAA bias is showing again. This isn't about a game being revolutionary or not, this is about SEGA producing content for core gamers, not remasters, not remakes but new content.

You seem to be confused and constantly project what you think I said to what you want me to say when I have. Ishin, regardless of what console it is on, is new content because it was a brand new production made by SEGA.

Yes Last of Us on the PS4 isn't new and just a port and Yakuza Ishi on the PS4 is just that a PS3 game running on the PS4.

You've missed the point again.

Ishin is new content because its a brand new game SEGA made. If I said The Last of Us Remastered is an example of Sony making new games I would be wrong, it isn't, if I said Ryu Ga Gotoku Zero is an example of SEGA making new games, I would be correct. Not hard to grasp.

Konami seems to be going into that direction , with if anything a bigger and more successful digital mobile arm. The others are still investing heavily in next gen gaming and engines . Its not like any of the major corps be that in the west aren't on mobile's (EA does better than SEGA on the mobile after all) but they also make sure that they have major AAA console productions , unlike SEGA Japan that seems more and more focus on the mobile .

See for you a company pushing the envelope is investing in gaming. For me a company investing in making core games is a company investing in core games, simple as. Not investing in making cutting edge games is not an indication that they are moving away from core games at all.

Rubbish . The NFL deal alone cost EA $300 million dollars , EA then spend over $860 million on getting Bioware and Pandemic . That's near enough $1.5 billion there . Now the NFL deal and the likes of the Bioware deals are paying off and EA

If you noticed, because you always overlook basic points, I said accumulated, as in including EA's profits as well. If we take just the losses, Electronic Arts has lost $3.9 billion. So no, the losses aren't just down to the purchase and NFL agreement.

And what's wrong with your math? 300 + 860 = 1,160. That's 340 off, not "near enough" it's a whole year's worth of profits.

Lol so we're reduce to counting the same game that just happens to appear on different formats and mobile and tablet games . Well on that score EA are making more than 10 or 15 games a year even now .

Again selective reading. I still stated there was 70 different games, with different SKUs its over 100, a very conservative estimations considering EA had 5 SKUs for one game, we're probably looking at over 150 different SKUs. So yes, EA's content has gone down drastically .

NCL can from its cash reserves  alone and you know it, not that it would want to . When it comes to cash in the bank , NCL are better than most , even Sammy .

The SEGA side is worth more than $4 billion, the Sammy side, which now owns a massive resort complex in South Korea, is probably double that. Nintendo would have to use up all of their cash reserves and than raise some capitals.

I could take out a mortgage to purchase a house worth a couple of million pounds, would I be able to afford it? Probably not. Having the funds alone isn't the only way to determine if someone can afford something but their long term health as well.

Offline Radrappy

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Re: The weak arm becomes the weak finger: 300 Jobs cut at Sega America
« Reply #200 on: February 09, 2015, 05:46:41 pm »

Its better than Generations? Your delusional. That game is really bad.


How so?  It has a wonderfully cohesive atmosphere, solid to good gameplay, creative level design and amazing music.  Sure, the FLUDD can get in the way of the fun but the camera is rarely a problem and the game oozes charm.  The controls are tight and the game has polish to spare. 


Maybe you just don't like 3D sonic games. But Generations was a better 3D sonic game than Mario Sunshine was a a 3D Mario game.


Ahhh well herein lies a very crucial distinction.  I suppose you could argue that Mario Sunshine somehow drops the ball when compared to its lineage of groundbreaking games like 64 and Galaxy, and in that regard was a disappointment.  It's true that its relatively unambitious and small compared to the aforementioned titles but it's still a very good game on its own.


Generations is a tricky beast to compare.  It doesn't have the polish that Sunshine has; that much is objectively true.  It's not that the game is glitchy but it's just not as tightly made.  The controls when not boosting or homing attacking are downright awful.  Try playing a single level by just running and jumping.  I dare you; it's a disaster.  In that sense the game itself is fundamentally inferior to Sunshine, which for all its woes controls comfortably.  Stacked onto Sonic's control issues are a number of very poorly designed levels that rely heavily on trial and error and twitch gameplay.  Not fun.  Additionally, the bosses felt half baked especially the final encounter.  It's one thing to be boring (sunshine's final boss) and its another to be flat out borderline unplayable (gen's final boss). 


We could go all day arguing about visuals and music, but I think the games are pretty evenly matched in that regard.  Considering all these things, Sunshine is still a much better game imo than Generations.  ST still has a long way to go to even begin to compete for that crown I'm afraid.


And as for Gens being a great "Sonic game,"  I think that's up for debate as well depending on what the brand means to you.  For someone like me that favors the platforming side of Sonic over his speed based antics, Gens is somewhat of a travesty. 

Offline Nathan

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Re: The weak arm becomes the weak finger: 300 Jobs cut at Sega America
« Reply #201 on: February 09, 2015, 06:28:42 pm »
Has TA ever agreed with anybody?

Offline CrazyT

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Re: The weak arm becomes the weak finger: 300 Jobs cut at Sega America
« Reply #202 on: February 09, 2015, 06:43:55 pm »
Gotta g with george here rappy. Mario sunshine is a tedious and boring game. The asigments just arent that fun despite all the pros you've listed. Many people praise the fludless stages in the game the most and i have to agree. I actually think the whole asigment structure from the original 3d mario games are kind of overrated, but particularly sunshine really did a bad job in making them fun to do. Mario sunshine is a good example of what csn go wrong when one crucial aspect gets overlooked, which is how i feel about every sonic game when it comes to controls


Offline George

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Re: The weak arm becomes the weak finger: 300 Jobs cut at Sega America
« Reply #203 on: February 09, 2015, 06:55:54 pm »

How so?  It has a wonderfully cohesive atmosphere, solid to good gameplay, creative level design and amazing music.  Sure, the FLUDD can get in the way of the fun but the camera is rarely a problem and the game oozes charm.  The controls are tight and the game has polish to spare. 



Ahhh well herein lies a very crucial distinction.  I suppose you could argue that Mario Sunshine somehow drops the ball when compared to its lineage of groundbreaking games like 64 and Galaxy, and in that regard was a disappointment.  It's true that its relatively unambitious and small compared to the aforementioned titles but it's still a very good game on its own.


Generations is a tricky beast to compare.  It doesn't have the polish that Sunshine has; that much is objectively true.  It's not that the game is glitchy but it's just not as tightly made.  The controls when not boosting or homing attacking are downright awful.  Try playing a single level by just running and jumping.  I dare you; it's a disaster.  In that sense the game itself is fundamentally inferior to Sunshine, which for all its woes controls comfortably.  Stacked onto Sonic's control issues are a number of very poorly designed levels that rely heavily on trial and error and twitch gameplay.  Not fun.  Additionally, the bosses felt half baked especially the final encounter.  It's one thing to be boring (sunshine's final boss) and its another to be flat out borderline unplayable (gen's final boss). 


We could go all day arguing about visuals and music, but I think the games are pretty evenly matched in that regard.  Considering all these things, Sunshine is still a much better game imo than Generations.  ST still has a long way to go to even begin to compete for that crown I'm afraid.


And as for Gens being a great "Sonic game,"  I think that's up for debate as well depending on what the brand means to you.  For someone like me that favors the platforming side of Sonic over his speed based antics, Gens is somewhat of a travesty. 
Just going to have to agree to disagree, I think Sunshine is one of the most tedious and probably the worse 3D Mario game I have ever played. I think Nintendo gets a pass on being lazy with games, See New Super Mario on the DS. I'm serious, sit down and look at the level designs, it almost feels like someone just ran a script to put random holes and bad guys everywhere. There is no rhythm or difficultly to it. Yet I bought into the hype of it being 'as good as Mario 3', which it wasn't be a long shot. Yet stating the obvious on that game is frowned upon on the internet.


Offline Radrappy

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Re: The weak arm becomes the weak finger: 300 Jobs cut at Sega America
« Reply #204 on: February 09, 2015, 07:29:37 pm »
The new super mario games are pretty damn lame; I'll definitely toast to that. 

Offline Nirmugen

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Re: The weak arm becomes the weak finger: 300 Jobs cut at Sega America
« Reply #205 on: February 09, 2015, 07:37:52 pm »
A simply question, how did you add depth to a 3D Plane in a Sonic game without the boost or the homing attack? That's the deal.
I agree about the not total 360º movement for Sonic with the Boost Formula off is sluggish but at least they try to make a really compelling one and hey ,in Lost World, they implemented another one without the Boost, with Spindash and complete 360º controls. ..just forget the rushed level design and the "not obligatory" Nintendo scheme and system that damage this game to being only good steps in the right direction.

And you know what have in favor Gens for that missing things? Power-Ups(to use as an extra), various routes, cohesion in level progress, not-tedious gameplay, simple mecanics, rewarding for explore and for have good reflexs and most important: PLATFORMING.

Since Heroes I didn't see so much emphasis in that in another console Sonic game before (although I like that game I see in where this has its problems like the long levels and the repetition in the same ones).

Offline Kori-Maru

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Re: The weak arm becomes the weak finger: 300 Jobs cut at Sega America
« Reply #206 on: February 09, 2015, 11:46:01 pm »
Guys I think we're getting a little bit off topic on the subject here. Let's continue discussing about SEGA of America job cuts and restructure.

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Offline CrazyT

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Re: The weak arm becomes the weak finger: 300 Jobs cut at Sega America
« Reply #207 on: February 10, 2015, 12:29:48 am »
@Nirmugen

I think people realise that its quickly played out after a couple of games. Unleashed introduced it, sonic colors made it decent, sonic generations perfected it. Its time to move on imho. We need something better.. Or I mean, SEGA needs something better
« Last Edit: February 10, 2015, 02:29:53 am by CrazyT »

Offline George

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Re: The weak arm becomes the weak finger: 300 Jobs cut at Sega America
« Reply #208 on: February 10, 2015, 03:40:49 am »
Yet people here praise the same boring Mario games?

Just perfecting the gameplay is the tip of the iceberg. If they can get Knuckles and Tails their own gameplay that is actually fun and unique, it  could work. Its something they couldn't get to work, but if people want slower platforming, I think having Knuckles as the playable character would work.

Don't slow down Sonic, I don't think he needs it.

I think the issue with Sonic Team in 1998 is they went all in. Having to design Sonic's mechanic, but also others like Big the Cat, Omega, Knuckles etc. When they announced Sonic Adventure 2 (rumor) it wasn't going to have 6 playable characters, but that changed due to fans or whatever.

So Sonic Team never sat down and actually tried to please fans with Sonic's gameplay. Now they went back to basics, like you said did a good job and you want them to start over from scratch?

No.
« Last Edit: February 10, 2015, 03:49:37 am by George »

Offline Radrappy

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Re: The weak arm becomes the weak finger: 300 Jobs cut at Sega America
« Reply #209 on: February 10, 2015, 10:26:14 am »
ST hasn't perfected anything.  Gens was just their latest pass at putting make up on a pig.  It looks great but is fundamentally broken under the surface.  No amount of rainbow ring, homing attack chain, or empty boosting segment is going to change that Sonic controls terribly and that the levels are poorly designed.

You might find Mario games boring George, but at least they're polished, playable, and have reliable controls and physics.  I'm not sure what you even mean with that generalization?  Even if you didn't like Sunshine SMG, SMG2, M3dL, and M3dW are all phenomenal. 
« Last Edit: February 10, 2015, 10:27:56 am by Radrappy »