Author Topic: Sonic the Hedgehog 4: Episode 1  (Read 525115 times)

Offline Aki-at

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Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
« Reply #1095 on: September 08, 2010, 07:41:07 pm »
Quote from: "crackdude"
I think we can all agree that for the devs more important than what fans want is the goals imposed by Sega. That is a budget limit, a certain development window and at least some predetermined level of quality.

Yes however, do you think SEGA told them to insert minecart and a giant casino board level into the game? This was something in the end cost SEGA time and money and yes, they have restrictions, but so does every other publisher and developer. Here are some facts, this game started life in January 2009, originally slated for June/July release this year, that's a time frame of over a year and a half. That's six extra months the classic Sonic games, bar Sonic CD, did not have.

We of course cannot discuss team size and budget, but the fact is they've had more time to develop a smaller game.

Quote from: "crackdude"
I don't imagine them editing 2 levels and then saying "well it's done.. let's all stare at eachothers until the game comes out". They are using their time to improve the game the best they can.

I said the majority of development time was spent changing those two levels, which they probably did. They obviously did other things, but they would pale in comprisions to the changes made there.

Quote from: "crackdude"
The basic physics engine is the first thing coded into the game. They would never change that. Nor basic game mechanics (like the homing attack) that have the stage design built around them.

But they did tweak some things out. I don't see how we can argue that they aren't doing enough and that they made "empty promises" when the little changes they made might actually be enough to achieve the same effect we want without restarting the whole game making process.

Again, I think the devs are showing they are listening to the fans. And I do not think it's right to downright call them liars. At least play the game before saying those things, know what I'm sayin.

The same effect you may want, not what the other group were promised though.

CrazyTails posted a quote from Ruby that goes against the entire design of the game that Ruby said it did. It is of course not his fault and boils down to the men up top, but it is what he used to describe the game, it would be one thing if he said "A new Sonic game, aiming to get closer to the roots of the series is coming soon!" however he went on with a full blown description that completely misleads everyone who want a return to better times. Infact the ending line goes against everything that someone like CrazyTails could expect.

So how can this not be called an empty promise or a lie? I realize you wish to defend the game, but this is a fact you cannot side foot around. Ruby said something that is completely not true for this Project Needlemouse in terms of it's gameplay, which was his intial quote.

Quote from: "crackdude"
The physics were wrong. They said they tweaked it out. You haven't seen the changes they made yet. What are you complaining about?

You do realize you are talking about perhaps extremely minor changes, a few glitches changed but overall, you are still getting Sonic Rush's physic engine. Yes it might be polished and tweaked a bit, but this is not the physic engine we wanted.

Quote from: "crackdude"
Example, did you not enjoy Metroid M while the fans are all apeshit over it? Do they not seem unreasonable? Fans will just complain about stuff everyone's fine with.

That's because you are no fan of Metroid and I would like it if you refrain from commenting on it unless you are a fan. The game might be fine but this is not what Metroid is about, the lengthy plot (Calling it "deep" would be an insult to actual good story telling) removal of exploration and a drastic change on core fundamentals of what is Metroid.

We do not become fans of the series simply because of x character, we become fans of the content. If this content is radically changed, why should I care or even have a positive opinion about it if it's something I personally think is not befitting?

So please, do not say fans like to complain, a lot of us do have good rational reasons, it be one thing if it's change in just character design, another thing when it effectively changes the gameplay which is what many have voiced their concerns over.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 06:00:00 pm by Guest »

Offline CrazyT

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Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
« Reply #1096 on: September 08, 2010, 07:55:04 pm »
There are some errors in the e3 build physics that don't only make the physics bad, but make them bad period.

Stuff like standing horizontal on walls and going in a halt after releasing the directional button are things no platformer I can think of have.

So for those still supporting the game, I hope that with minor changes they fixed those kind of errors.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 06:00:00 pm by Guest »

Offline Dr. SEGA Monkey

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Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
« Reply #1097 on: September 08, 2010, 07:55:59 pm »
I pretty pissed off at this. They promised us they would be going back and fixing the physics. Now they're saying that the physics will barely be changed?

Wow....just wow.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 06:00:00 pm by Guest »

Offline Sega Uranus

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Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
« Reply #1098 on: September 08, 2010, 08:01:00 pm »
I am not shocked at all. The passion we can all see in stuff like Sonic Colors is not here. Yeah, I appreciate that they used classic sounds and concepts, but the fact that they mixed up the rolling and the spindash sounds with one another are just such strange issues that even people who have not played the series since the early 90s would have not mixed up. They simply just do not want to make the game.

Remember when Sonic games were developed by professionals who made great games without any outside help or motivation other than "We need to make this better than Mario!"? This is a big difference with Sonic the Hedgehog 4, which is being designed around what the fans whine about and what Sonic Team thinks is better.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 06:00:00 pm by Guest »

Offline crackdude

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Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
« Reply #1099 on: September 08, 2010, 08:18:17 pm »
"I realize you wish to defend the game, but this is a fact you cannot side foot around. Ruby said something that is completely not true for this Project Needlemouse in terms of it's gameplay, which was his intial quote."
I wouldn't personally say 'completely not true' without playing the final product, but I see where you're aiming at. Yes, you are right in that.

As for the Metroid part, I too like to complain when I think something is not right. Still, you do know I'm a little bit more passive at it than most of you guys before actually trying out the games.
But the core fundamentals of Sonic will not change with this game. I don't see how.

There is one thing that you might agree with me:
If this game wasn't called Sonic 4, all these discussions would be more tame and less critical. And that's the problem Sonic Team has to handle here.
When I look at Sonic 4 I see a possibly good fun game with throwbacks to the past. But then comes the feeling that it doesn't actually follow up the originals. And that's what most of these discussions are about.
Homing attack for example I think is a non-issue but has made some people here pretty mad because it effectively changes some old mechanics. Not that it will be worse, but the simple fact it's different bugs many here.

I think Sonic Team made a huge mistake in calling this Sonic 4. And the fact that more episodes are coming under that name can be "frighting"

@CrazyTails
I'm pretty sure those particular things will be corrected. You don't need a new engine to correct that. Stop being silly.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 06:00:00 pm by Guest »
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Offline crackdude

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Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
« Reply #1100 on: September 08, 2010, 08:19:53 pm »
Quote from: "Sega Uranus"
Remember when Sonic games were developed by professionals who made great games without any outside help or motivation other than "We need to make this better than Mario!"? This is a big difference with Sonic the Hedgehog 4, which is being designed around what the fans whine about and what Sonic Team thinks is better.
If you put it that way, Sonic 4 seems pretty shit.

They should really change the name.. There's a different motivation behind the game really.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 06:00:00 pm by Guest »
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Offline Aki-at

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Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
« Reply #1101 on: September 08, 2010, 08:24:15 pm »
The game is probably going to sell millions anyway, though I do wonder how much Sonic Colours will eat into that game's sales since it's generating much much more hype.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 06:00:00 pm by Guest »

Offline Barry the Nomad

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Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
« Reply #1102 on: September 08, 2010, 09:00:48 pm »
4's four platforms and low price will probably have no problem against Colors one platform (the DS version is totally different from the Wii version, unlike 4's iPhone version, thus why I said one platform) and $50 price. I'm also guessing that 4 will release in October, giving a good month between the games.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 06:00:00 pm by Guest »

Offline Sharky

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Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
« Reply #1103 on: September 08, 2010, 09:45:59 pm »
Sega quick, change the name... So everything is different.
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Offline Autosaver

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Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
« Reply #1104 on: September 10, 2010, 08:44:43 pm »
Did someone call the WAAAAMBULANCE?

Who ******* cares if its Sonic 4.
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Offline MadeManG74

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Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
« Reply #1105 on: September 10, 2010, 08:54:24 pm »
Quote from: "Autosaver"
Did someone call the WAAAAMBULANCE?

Who ******* cares if its Sonic 4.

True fans?
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Offline Sega Uranus

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Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
« Reply #1106 on: September 10, 2010, 09:03:34 pm »
Quote from: "Sharky"
Sega quick, change the name... So everything is different.

It is a big deal that it is called Sonic the Hedgehog 4, and not something else. I mean, if SEGA released Shenmue Online, but retitled it Shenmue III, I bet you would be bitching five times harder than anyone has about this.
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Offline Barry the Nomad

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Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
« Reply #1107 on: September 10, 2010, 09:20:47 pm »
Shenmue Online = completely different gameplay and doesn't star Ryo, thus wouldn't make sense as Shenmue III

Sonic 4 = very similar gameplay and stars Sonic, thus makes sense it would be Sonic 4

Comparison null! What if in two years time we get Shenmue 3, however it is running on some sort of modified Yakuza engine and the graphics are more like VF5? Still, it plays like a Shenmue game but feels newer and tweaked. Is it undeserving of the title Shenmue 3? I mean, the graphics are different and the engine is different yet similar. Guess it would have to be undeserving of the title and proclaimed shit just as Sonic 4 has been.
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Offline Sega Uranus

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Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
« Reply #1108 on: September 10, 2010, 09:31:03 pm »
Quote from: "Barry the Nomad"
Shenmue Online = completely different gameplay and doesn't star Ryo, thus wouldn't make sense as Shenmue III

Sonic 4 = very similar gameplay and stars Sonic, thus makes sense it would be Sonic 4

Comparison null! What if in two years time we get Shenmue 3, however it is running on some sort of modified Yakuza engine and the graphics are more like VF5? Still, it plays like a Shenmue game but feels newer and tweaked. Is it undeserving of the title Shenmue 3? I mean, the graphics are different and the engine is different yet similar. Guess it would have to be undeserving of the title and proclaimed shit just as Sonic 4 has been.

That would not be so bad as AM2 actually does not suck ass and both Yakuza and Virtua Fighter 5 have great art regardless. [spoiler:u506k232]/joke[/spoiler:u506k232]

I think you are looking into my point too much. Sonic the Hedgehog 4 is not shit, it is just not anywhere close to as good as it should or could be. If it was called something else, most of us would not mind anywhere near as much. Like Sonic Free Riders, we all know it sucks, who cares? It is a spinoff and does not try to sell itself on anything other than the Sonic name itself.

In the state Sonic the Hedgehog 4 is in, it is actually a bit of an offense to many of the fans. If they did not know how to do it right they should have tried making some similar games first and THEN move onto Sonic the Hedgehog 4.
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Offline Sharky

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Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
« Reply #1109 on: September 10, 2010, 10:07:06 pm »
Quote from: "Sega Uranus"
Quote from: "Sharky"
Sega quick, change the name... So everything is different.

It is a big deal that it is called Sonic the Hedgehog 4, and not something else. I mean, if SEGA released Shenmue Online, but retitled it Shenmue III, I bet you would be bitching five times harder than anyone has about this.

I'm sure I would... But that isnt a very good comparison. Shenmue Online doesn't follow the same gameplay or story as Shenmue cannon. Thankfully it was canned.

This game is very much like a classic Sonic game... It just doesn't meet your personal tastes.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 06:00:00 pm by Guest »
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