Sonic the Hedgehog 4: Episode 1

[Barry the Nomad]

Errrrggghhhhhhhmmmmm.... Mega Man 9&10 are awful examples. I'd take Mademan's Splosion Man comparison over Mega Man. To me, Mega Man 9&10 felt like a lame attempt at catering to the 8-bit Hot Topic crowd (ooh, pixels! I love the NES!). They were enjoyable enough, but they just felt like some fan hacked an NES rom. Sonic 4, by comparison was built from the ground up. Now what that final structure resembles is debatable (some love it, some like it, some hate it), but it's a fact that Sonic 4 had much more time and money spent on visuals than Mega Man 9&10 did.

Splosion Man, as Mademan throws about, makes much more sense. It's a fully 3D platformer with many more levels than Sonic 4 that costs $5 less. Not to mention Splosion Man was developed by a company much smaller than Sonic Team, yet Twisted Pixel Games still gave the game a lower price than it deserved. I'd have gladly paid $15 for Splosion Man. Interestingly enough, Twisted Pixel's next game Comic Jumper, releases next week for $15.

edit: oh no! I sickened fluffy! whatever dude.

As for the game only selling to the most devoted of fans, we'll have to wait and see what the sales figures say. As I've said again and again, $15 has been the going rate for every new premium title on XBLA (and possibly PSN, I don't follow their prices though). LIMBO was $15 and yet it became the top selling game of the Summer of Arcade. Comic Jumper, the follow-up to Splosion Man, is $15. SEGA would be foolish to break the pricing line and release a new title for $5. Once they do that, they'd be shooting themselves in the foot. Pretty soon people will cry foul whenever a SEGA title releases for more than $5. Example: Crazy Taxi releases in October and fans cry foul for it being $5 more than Sonic 4. SEGA games are much better than a discount bin price, save that for the indie games and Genesis releases.

[fluffymoochicken]

it's a fact that Sonic 4 had much more time and money spent on visuals than Mega Man 9&10 did.

I absolutely would not accept that as "fact" unless you had undeniable proof of it.

[Sega Uranus]

Okay, lets say for arguments sake your right.

Kind of making us both look like asses with comments like this. I have never really outright said the game is shit or that people should not buy it, if that is what you are assuming. I do not know what the big deal is. I point out flaws that are obvious to me and many others and people like Sharky FREAK OUT by making us seem like whiny/stupid children when he originally thought he had clever arguments. This is really going too far now.

How is this any different from the dumb "hold right to win" argument? You would be jumping and boosting right up until you got to a point where you could not anymore. There are a lot of high walls in Splash Hill where you'd have to turn around.

It is different because the "Hold right to win" argument is flawed in that most classic Sonic levels need you to turn around or roll to build momentum or break through some sections, I pointed out turning around in this concept and the homing attack keeps you in a ball too, so other than falling off into a bottomless pit there should never be issues. The homing attack gives you a full burst of speed and can be "Launched" at different heights, making any kind of platform easily traversable.

As for something like the torches and dynamite - Which I have openly said I believe is the best addition to the game. I do not know how these work, but as long as the game does not use any more buttons (Iizuka lies a lot, but he did say the game only needs one button) I do not see how this would be a problem either.

No, 400 MS points would have been the right price.

$5? Really? lol, do you want SEGA to make a profit? C'mon now, $5 is just plain silly. This isn't some rerelease of a Genesis game, it's a newly developed game. SEGA would be retard to release Sonic 4 for $5 an episode.

I know for a fact the game was originally designed with the $5 price point in mind, which is why things like the graphics look... Like they do.

It is kind of silly to argue this. It is easily going to be one of the best selling downloadable games of the year, I do not know why you would be worried about them making a profit when much larger games by much much much smaller and unknown devs with an unknown IP... Like 'Splosion Man can make a profit at $10.

$15 is not a big deal at the end of the day, no, but lets just assume this will be 3 episodes. That adds up to $45, as compared to a $30 overall cost if the game was $10. What if there are 5 episodes? More? DLC?

I am personally not even going to attempt to get this game. When the obvious retail release of it hits for a better value I will probably consider it. I expect the next few episodes to be better, but just thinking it 'might' be a 'little' better is far too much hope to put in a Sonic Team product anymore.

EDIT: Barry pointed out my 'Splosion Man thing just as I posted this, imma kill myself

[Barry the Nomad]

Personal preference for visuals aside and simply looking at the graphics displayed, I'm certain that more money was spent on Sonic 4's visuals than Mega Man 9's. Compare this:
[youtube:3kw3hjqd]Lsqcsz2sSH4[/youtube:3kw3hjqd]

To this:
[youtube:3kw3hjqd]hRNE1YUe6y8[/youtube:3kw3hjqd]

I know for a fact the game was originally designed with the $5 price point in mind, which is why things like the graphics look... Like they do.

If you're going by the partnernet leak, I really can't say that that was a factual piece of info. For all we know, that 400 was a placeholder. I have no clue how the system works for filling in XBLA Marketplace info, but for all we know some intern selected the first option from a drop down tab. I'd assume prices are discussed at a higher level, between execs and accounting. By this logic, SA was originally designed to be free:


If either you or some other SEGA blog writer gets a chance to lop some Q's at SEGA (specifically Ruby or Ken), I'd love to see this receive a proper answer rather than assumptions based on an old screenshot.

As for Splosion Man: LAWL at us agreeing on something  

[fluffymoochicken]

Personal preference for visuals aside and simply looking at the graphics displayed, I'm certain that more money was spent on Sonic 4's visuals than Mega Man 9's.

But you're basing that certainty on mere speculation, not any kind of concrete fact.

[Barry the Nomad]

Personal preference for visuals aside and simply looking at the graphics displayed, I'm certain that more money was spent on Sonic 4's visuals than Mega Man 9's.

But you're basing that certainty on mere speculation, not any kind of concrete fact.

Okay, so maybe I shouldn't say it was fact, but lets say we're looking at a shark and a blue whale, and I say "well that whale has got to weigh more than the shark" and you say "woh! hold it! that is pure speculation! Not any kind of concrete fact!" Right now I think you're just looking for another pointless argument.

[Sega Uranus]

If you're going by the partnernet leak

I am not.

But you're basing that certainty on mere speculation, not any kind of concrete fact.

Almost all of the art in Mega Man 9 (not sure about 10) was done by one guy. Unless he was overpayed and everyone who worked on Sonic the Hedgehog 4's art was underpayed...

However, Mega Man 9 features more styles of art than Sonic the Hedgehog 4's, which the majority is almost entirely inspired if not just ripped off of earlier titles. Mega Man 9 had a lot of repeated art too, but mostly just for the enemies.

I think you are both right and wrong at the same time, neat!

I think the more fair comparison would be something like Mega Man Zero games though. Mega Man 9 specifically was designed to look retro, so it is not really the same kind of output as Sonic the Hedgehog 4.

[fluffymoochicken]

Okay, so maybe I shouldn't say it was fact, but lets say we're looking at a shark and a blue whale, and I say "well that whale has got to weigh more than the shark" and you say "woh! hold it! that is pure speculation! Not any kind of concrete fact!" Right now I think you're just looking for another pointless argument.

That's a bad comparison to use, because the differences in weight could be easily be proven, whether it be through verified sources (such as good encyclopedias or marine biology textbooks), or even by weighing them yourself if the means are provided.

You have no verified sources, nor do you have the metaphorical weight scale to go by. It's all baseless speculation.

[Sega Uranus]

Okay, so maybe I shouldn't say it was fact, but lets say we're looking at a shark and a blue whale, and I say "well that whale has got to weigh more than the shark" and you say "woh! hold it! that is pure speculation! Not any kind of concrete fact!" Right now I think you're just looking for another pointless argument.

That's a bad comparison to use, because the differences in weight could be easily be proven, whether it be through verified sources (such as good encyclopedias or marine biology textbooks), or even by weighing them yourself if the means are provided.

You have no verified sources, nor do you have the metaphorical weight scale to go by. It's all baseless speculation.

Yeah, he also did not mention how he was seeing that shark and whale! They could have been out of view, or he could have been making them up all together.

That is the dirtiest thing Barry ever did... Making up sharks...  :cry:

[Barry the Nomad]

That's a bad comparison to use, because the differences in weight could be easily be proven, whether it be through verified sources (such as good encyclopedias or marine biology textbooks), or even by weighing them yourself if the means are provided.

You have no verified sources, nor do you have the metaphorical weight scale to go by. It's all baseless speculation.

Sanus may be a motherfucker, but he knows his shit. I had no clue that MM9's art was all done by one guy. Yeah, so unless Capcom paid one guy über bucks and SEGA paid a team of artists peanuts, that fact alone makes it pretty apparent (bordering on factual!) that MM9 had a smaller graphical budget than Sonic 4.

PS Sanus, how come we never play nightcrawlers anymore?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u4qY5TktAUk

[fluffymoochicken]

Yeah, he also did not mention how he was seeing that shark and whale! They could have been out of view, or he could have been making them up all together.

Let me assure you that sometimes, looks can be deceiving.

You could look at a cubic foot of iron and a cubic foot of lead and tell me that they weigh the same just from appearance, but you would be wrong.

Sanus may be a motherfucker, but he knows his shit. I had no clue that MM9's art was all done by one guy.

Actually, I'd be more surprised to find out that Sonic 4 had multiple graphical artists. That would mean that SEGA spent money on multiple people who had hardly a bit of talent between them. In that case, it might seem reasonable that better talent = better pay.

So no, it's still not a fact until you have proof.

[Sega Uranus]

PS Sanus, how come we never play nightcrawlers anymore?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u4qY5TktAUk

Nightcrawlers is THE best drunk game to play for sure, but it scares the shit out of my cat.

However, my cat being scared is an option for him, it is not my fault I am playing nightcrawlers and that is a fucking weird thing to do to begin with.  8-)

Actually, I'd be more surprised to find out that Sonic 4 had multiple graphical artists. That would mean that SEGA spent money on multiple people who had hardly a bit of talent between them. In that case, it might seem reasonable that better talent = better pay.

Outside of the garden and cement themed levels, I would say Mega Man 9 has pretty much the same kind of hard work being put into it honestly. Both are trying a bit too hard to make both games look as close to the classics as possible, but in the case of Sonic Team, I think it would be a bigger challenge as they have nothing with the same kind of art direction to base it off of. With Mega Man 9 they could practically just copy and paste if they needed to.

I would wait to see what some of the sections in Episode II looks before bringing this up again really. For all we know, Episode II could look way worse.

[Sharky]

I point out flaws that are obvious to me and many others and people like Sharky FREAK OUT by making us seem like whiny/stupid children when he originally thought he had clever arguments. This is really going too far now.

Can you stop being such a bitch?

I'm really tired of your constant speaking for everyone, putting words into peoples mouths and saying that anyone that doesn't agree with you are 'freaking out'.

Give it a rest already, nobody was freaking out.

[Sega Uranus]

I point out flaws that are obvious to me and many others and people like Sharky FREAK OUT by making us seem like whiny/stupid children when he originally thought he had clever arguments. This is really going too far now.

Can you stop being such a bitch?

I'm really tired of your constant speaking for everyone, putting words into peoples mouths and saying that anyone that doesn't agree with you are 'freaking out'.

Give it a rest already, nobody was freaking out.

Comments like this look like "Freaking out" to basically everyone, like why call me a bitch?

You are the one getting upset that we are not agreeing with you... Read back to what has been said in the past 100 or so pages. I do not mention the actual quality of the game or anything like that, I am just talking about what is in the game and do not even give a shit if someone disagrees with me, but I make my opinion known. Just because you do not understand does not mean you need to spaz out and start calling me names or anything, come on!

[Sharky]

I'm calling you a bitch for talking crap about me, for no good reason in convocations with other people... Even worse when you're just making shit up...

Again I completely understand what you are saying, I simply don't agree with it. If you can finish Sonic 4 with out using the homing attack at all then it is optional in my opinion, as optional simply means possible to do the task with or without using this feature. The only parts of the level where it could be said is not optional doesn't at all compromise the fun or difficulty of the level... ie, Homing attack birdges.

Stop being so elitist, it doesn't suit you.

I don't need any life lessons from someone that actually bullied people on this forum and tried to ruin the forum when we had a server problem by editing people’s posts and further picking on members in the process.