Sonic the Hedgehog 4: Episode 1

[Sharky]

No dude it is YOU missing the point... Again and again.

As I've said about 5 times now... You can USE the homing attack for the bridges to all areas and still NOT use it on bosses, enemies and other things.

Why is this extremely simple idea so hard to grasp for some of you? Use it when you need to use it... Don't when you don't.

SO no it isnt optional if you are going to make a big fuss about NEEDING to take the path that uses the homing attack enemy bridge but those bridges were never a bloody issue anyway.

YOUR issue is how easy the homing attack makes killing normal enemies and bosses among other things. In THOSE cases simply DONT use it.

Complex shit I know but try to understand.

[CrazyT]

As a shield huh.. Like the golden shield in sonic 3d?

I like that idea, but i'd want them to appear real scarce. Though that wouldn't really matter if the stages were really challenging. Like you said in an earlier post, with the homing attack now you could finish whole stages just by tapping the jump button rapidly. Who cares if you get hit, you'll get rings on the way again and again while you just tap the jump button.

If it was a shield(meaning you'd lose it once you get hit), you would be encouraged not to play like an idiot and try hard to keep it... Kinda like how all the other shields worked in sonic3andknuckles.

But tbh, i'd rather not have the move at all, but if they insist, this or an option to switch it on/off would be great choices from them.

It's like when everyone complained about sonic unleashed endless spam of boosting. People used to defend that shit to death months ago. Now sonic colors has been anounced, everyone is like,  dumbing down the boost and filling up your gauge by capsules instead of rings to make it less spammable is a great decision from sega.

I can allready see the same people who defend the homing attack with all their energie find the decision of a homing attack shield to be great if sonicteam ever decided to do that, same with the on/off option thing.

Edit: just for clearance, the last part wasn't aimed at you sharky(homing attack, boost spam defending part) but to the general people I talk with around the sega boards.

[Orta]

Wow, Sharky finally gets it. Level design around a move doesn't make that move optional. Just wow.

[Shigs]

Nope, the whole point of Sonic is platforming. Meaning jumping from platform to platform, all the while aiming yourself. The homing attack moves you forward at full speed and even towards the enemy in attack formation. Potentially it is possible to beat this game with just facing yourself in one direction (having to turn yourself around when necessary) and tapping the jump button constantly.

You can say that making the game easier might be a good thing, it breaks the game when you do not even need to move or use any other kind of ability. Saying it is just like the spindash is a poor argument as you needed to stop, balance yourself and charge it up for a second or two. The homing attack takes out all of that and turns it into a "PRESS THIS A LOT TO WIN" button. Using it removes the momentum, the platforming and most of the general skill required in the original trilogy. Saying we should ignore it is the real argument that verges on retarded, that is like saying a fat person should not have weight problems because eating is completely optional.
 

Ha Ha! No.

As someone who's played the game, I can guarantee you this is not the case. Homing attack is mostly used for chaining bridges of bubbles. Later in the game, these bubbles can spike. Meaning you have to time your homing attacks just right.

There's no way in hell you can beat this game just mashing the "A" button. Even in Splash Hill.

I think part of the problem of the perception of this game comes from Splash Hill alone. It's very easy and beating Eggman is TOO easy. The rest of the levels are not like that and have quite a bit of platforming to them and Eggman is not so easy to beat.

Frankly, I'm sick of this "momentum" bullshit people keep bringing up in arguments. There hasn't been true momentum-based gameplay in this series since the spindash was introduced. Proper Sonic gameplay is a balance of speed and platforming.

[MadeManG74]

So if someone doesn't like shooting games, they might still love Halo, because shooting in that game is optional. Nobody is forcing you to use the right trigger, you can just ignore the shooting and use grenades, vehicles or good old fashioned platforming instead!

This verges on retarded. I expect to see this crap on some Sonic Message board but from you Mademan?... Come on now.

Shooting is the entire point of Halo... Is the Homing attack the entire point of Sonic 4? Is Spin dash the entire point of Sonic 2? No, that is ridiculous.

Maybe if you had argued that it's like playing Halo but not using grenades or not using vehicles it MIGHT be a good comparison to how much of an issue not using the Homing Attack is.

I feel stupid posting a counter argument to that post, how did you feel posting it in the first place?

You shouldn't take everything I say so seriously, my was exaggurating for effect. Obviously it's not the same as Halo's shooting, but there is a bit of truth in it, seeing as the homing attack is the primary form of attack in the Sonic game. It's technically optional, but the game is built around it, just like Halo is built around shooting.

In any event, not long until it's out now, meaning we can play the demo and give it a shot if we are so inclined.

[Orta]

Proper Sonic gameplay is a balance of speed and platforming.

Proper Sonic gameplay is speed as a reward for being good at the game. There you go.

[Sharky]

Wow, Sharky finally gets it. Level design around a move doesn't make that move optional. Just wow.

But this is only the case if you are going to be impossible... As some of you are. The game IS possible to complete with out homing attack. (According to Ruby.) So yes it IS optional... Simply take OTHER Paths.

But if you are going to be awkward about it and insist that even though you don't want to use homing attack you still want to take homing attack paths then I'm saying simply use it for that, tiny insignificant bit and then continue to ignore it and it STILL wont break the game in the slightest.


Also:

[Orta]

I never said you couldn't beat the game without the homing attack. What I said was I could not take advantage of the whole game without it. The levels contain elements and sections that require it. Therefore, the move is not optional as you insist so much. I wouldn't have much of a problem with it if the levels weren't designed around it, but they are. I have also explained why the homing attack was created and why it does not make sense in a 2D game. I think there is a video of Iizuka himself saying why they introduced the homing attack in Sonic Adventure. Finally, the homing attack would be a nice addition as an unlockable move as I've pointed before, never as a core gameplay element.

[Sharky]

If you can complete the game with out using it... it is opinion, just as taking the path that requires you to use it is optional. There are other paths.

But to be honest, why does it even matter... This is not part of the game that breaks or ruins Sonic 4 for anyone. The ONLY problem with Homing Attack that would effect Sonic 4 is making bosses and such to easy. Simply don't use the move and it's a non-issue.

[Sega Uranus]

YOUR issue is how easy the homing attack makes killing normal enemies and bosses among other things. In THOSE cases simply DONT use it.

Dude, what the fuck? Stop making up shit. I never mentioned any of these.

All of us have pointed out that we do not hate it, but would prefer it as an extra thing, not a basic game design.

You are impossible and just are not even trying to even comprehend what any of us are trying to get the point around to you. You are taking it far too seriously and need to grow up, stop treating everyone else like a baby and take a look in the mirror. I am not going to respond to another one of your posts on this until you at least try to see our points...

As someone who's played the game, I can guarantee you this is not the case. Homing attack is mostly used for chaining bridges of bubbles. Later in the game, these bubbles can spike. Meaning you have to time your homing attacks just right.

There's no way in hell you can beat this game just mashing the "A" button. Even in Splash Hill.

Not mindlessly mashing, no, but timing the jumps and homing attacks just right makes potentially everything beatable in this setting. If you can get to your full speed and are able to hit everything (even stuff you can bounce or swing from) then whats stopping you from not being able to just do this the whole time without pressing the dpad - Outside of turning around, at least.

I think part of the problem of the perception of this game comes from Splash Hill alone. It's very easy and beating Eggman is TOO easy. The rest of the levels are not like that and have quite a bit of platforming to them and Eggman is not so easy to beat.

...I would not be making my opinion so loud if I have not seen the majority of the game.

Frankly, I'm sick of this "momentum" bullshit people keep bringing up in arguments. There hasn't been true momentum-based gameplay in this series since the spindash was introduced. Proper Sonic gameplay is a balance of speed and platforming.

You lost me here. The spindash is part of the momentum, everything from the rolling and the bouncing from one enemy to the next taking you higher and higher were all part of the original games that are really not available in the majority of the games (outside of the classics) that added to the momentum and the general experiences. Games like Sonic Adventure 1 and 2 thrived on creative gameplay and level design which is why people still gave a shit about the series.

Also, what Orta said about the momentum being the true reward. Part of the reason people actually kind of liked Sonic and the Secret Rings was because of this... But only to a much much smaller extent.

[Sharky]

Dude, what the fuck? Stop making up shit. I never mentioned any of these.

All of us have pointed out that we do not hate it, but would prefer it as an extra thing, not a basic game design.

There you go again putting words in other peoples mouths, pretty childish trait.

People here HAVE complained about it making the game 'too easy' and such.

You are impossible and just are not even trying to even comprehend what any of us are trying to get the point around to you. You are taking it far too seriously and need to grow up, stop treating everyone else like a baby and take a look in the mirror. I am not going to respond to another one of your posts on this until you at least try to see our points...

'You are being childish, now I'm not going to respond to any more of your posts until you see it my way!'

I know what point you are trying to make. I never once said it wouldn't be a better idea to have some kind of switch to turn the homing attack on and off in the menu... (If only because it would stop people like you complaining.)

My point is that optional means that you are at no point FORCED to use the homing attack... As in you can do the task at had and choose to use it or not. Which according to Ruby is 100% possible.

So no it is not optional in the sense that it can be turned on and off, but it is optional in the sense you can complete the game and never use it.

[ezodagrom]

I know what point you are trying to make. I never once said it wouldn't be a better idea to have some kind of switch to turn the homing attack on and off in the menu... (If only because it would stop people like you complaining.)

My point is that optional means that you are at no point FORCED to use the homing attack... As in you can do the task at had and choose to use it or not. Which according to Ruby is 100% possible.

So no it is not optional in the sense that it can be turned on and off, but it is optional in the sense you can complete the game and never use it.

Apparently there's a part in the Splash Hill leaked/E3 build where the Homing Attack wasn't optional, a Bubble's bridge before the ending of an act with a bottomless pit below (don't remember exactly which act it was).
Now it depends if they changed that part of the stage, or if it's possible to bounce from Bubble to Bubble. But if it isn't possible to bounce from Bubble to Bubble (due to bad physics maybe?) or if there's no alternate path, then the homing attack isn't 100% optional.
There's also parts where it could be said that it's optional, but it's a part where the only choice is use the homing attack or get hit. Those parts are when a spring sends Sonic directly to a Bubble's bridge, or when Sonic rolls up a ramp, uncurls, and is sent directly to a Bubble's bridge. ._.

Well, I guess the only thing that can be done now is wait for release (I won't buy it if it costs $15/15€ though, not worth it).

[Shigs]

As someone who's played the game, I can guarantee you this is not the case. Homing attack is mostly used for chaining bridges of bubbles. Later in the game, these bubbles can spike. Meaning you have to time your homing attacks just right.

There's no way in hell you can beat this game just mashing the "A" button. Even in Splash Hill.

Not mindlessly mashing, no, but timing the jumps and homing attacks just right makes potentially everything beatable in this setting. If you can get to your full speed and are able to hit everything (even stuff you can bounce or swing from) then whats stopping you from not being able to just do this the whole time without pressing the dpad - Outside of turning around, at least.

No, no, no, no!!! You actually have to control Sonic with the D-Pad. You cannot jump through the entire game like you described. It's stupid to even think that.

I think part of the problem of the perception of this game comes from Splash Hill alone. It's very easy and beating Eggman is TOO easy. The rest of the levels are not like that and have quite a bit of platforming to them and Eggman is not so easy to beat.

...I would not be making my opinion so loud if I have not seen the majority of the game.
 

Yea. Come back to me when you've actually had your hands on it buddy. Seeing and playing are two different things.

[Sega Uranus]

No, no, no, no!!! You actually have to control Sonic with the D-Pad. You cannot jump through the entire game like you described. It's stupid to even think that.

But... Sonic is forced forward at full speed when he does it... Countless people have confirmed this, as well as it always being like that so I never needed people to confirm it.

Yea. Come back to me when you've actually had your hands on it buddy. Seeing and playing are two different things.

I want to say "Fair enough", but my comments are always directed at WHAT is in the game, not how it works.

[Shigs]

No, no, no, no!!! You actually have to control Sonic with the D-Pad. You cannot jump through the entire game like you described. It's stupid to even think that.

But... Sonic is forced forward at full speed when he does it... Countless people have confirmed this, as well as it always being like that so I never needed people to confirm it.

Okay, lets say for arguments sake your right. How is this any different from the dumb "hold right to win" argument? You would be jumping and boosting right up until you got to a point where you could not anymore. There are a lot of high walls in Splash Hill where you'd have to turn around.

Also, what about levels like Lost labyrinth or Casino Street where you have rotating/disappearing platforms. Or balancing on giant boulders or rotating giant gears? The use of Dynamite? How the hell would your "jump button only" method work then?