Author Topic: Sonic the Hedgehog 4: Episode 1  (Read 524485 times)

Offline Sharky

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Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
« Reply #1290 on: October 05, 2010, 08:49:13 am »
Quote from: "Dr. SEGA Monkey"
The best Dimps game is Sonic Advance 3. Now that I think about it, Sonic Advance 3 does a better job at being a "Sonic 4" than the actual Sonic 4.

You have got to be joking... Sonic Advance 3 was not fun at all. I would bet my bottom dollar if they had created Sonic Advanced and called it Sonic 4 everyone would be picking THAT apart instead.

I know I would, Sonic Advance 3 sucked, the co-op gameplay stuff was as shit as it was in Sonic Heroes.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 06:00:00 pm by Guest »
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Offline Barry the Nomad

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Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
« Reply #1291 on: October 05, 2010, 09:06:55 am »
Argh! I forgot about the second player premise! I did not enjoy that at all. Some combinations were far too powerful, while others were simply weak. In my opinion, Sonic Pocket Adventure was the most classic of the Dimps portables, followed by Sonic Advance. Sonic Advance 2 was enjoyable, but the running boss battles really brought the game down. One or two would have been cool, but every boss? :P As for 3, as mentioned I thought it was hurt by second player powers, pre-act hubs, bland mini-games (hit the capsule to equal 11? Felt like I was playing a LeapFrog) and confusing new rules as to how to unlock stages. I'm not calling SAdv 3 shit at all, it was actually rather fun as a game, but it wasn't as good as the first two nor does it look to trump Sonic 4.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 06:00:00 pm by Guest »

Offline crackdude

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Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
« Reply #1292 on: October 05, 2010, 09:39:20 am »
I agree with Sharky and Barry.

Sonic Advance 3 is not very fun.. And Sonic Pocket Adventure is Dimps moment of sheer brilliance.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 06:00:00 pm by Guest »
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Offline Dr. SEGA Monkey

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Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
« Reply #1293 on: October 05, 2010, 09:42:35 am »
Huh? The Sonic Advance 3 physics weren't accurate to Genesis physics, but at least you felt like you were playing a Sonic game. In Advance 3, Sonic can speed up while rolling down hills, he has air inertia, he can't stand on walls....

And there was so much content in Advance 3. And why complain about the partner gimmick? You don't even need it to beat the game. You just use it if you want to change your move-set, or if you want to access secret areas.

Plus the music is awesome. And the game itself it legitimately challenging.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 06:00:00 pm by Guest »

Offline Barry the Nomad

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Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
« Reply #1294 on: October 05, 2010, 09:45:27 am »
The fact that it was on the Neo Geo Color helped too. Too bad SPA didn't have any Dreamcast connectivity like Cool Cool Jam and the KoF games did. It would have been cool if SPA and SA1 interacted somehow.

Quote
Huh? The Sonic Advance 3 physics weren't accurate to Genesis physics, but at least you felt like you were playing a Sonic game. In Advance 3, Sonic can speed up while rolling down hills, he has air inertia, he can't stand on walls....

But... you haven't played Sonic 4 yet so how can you say that playing Sonic 4 doesn't feel like a Sonic game when... you haven't played it yet...?

Urgh....
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 06:00:00 pm by Guest »

Offline Dr. SEGA Monkey

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Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
« Reply #1295 on: October 05, 2010, 09:58:55 am »
I'm going by videos and countless people who HAVE played it saying Sonic doesn't speed up while rolling and all that other stuff.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 06:00:00 pm by Guest »

Offline Barry the Nomad

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Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
« Reply #1296 on: October 05, 2010, 10:07:00 am »
So a game that features uncurling does not feel like a Sonic game (despite the fact that you haven't even felt it yourself) however a game that features pre-act hubs, unbalanced tag team moves, grinding and this method of obtaining chaos emeralds: The player needs to find 10 chao per level in order to access the Special Stage and earn Chaos Emeralds feels like a classic Sonic game?
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 06:00:00 pm by Guest »

Offline Sharky

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Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
« Reply #1297 on: October 05, 2010, 11:59:00 am »
Quote from: "Barry the Nomad"
So a game that features uncurling does not feel like a Sonic game (despite the fact that you haven't even felt it yourself) however a game that features pre-act hubs, unbalanced tag team moves, grinding and this method of obtaining chaos emeralds: The player needs to find 10 chao per level in order to access the Special Stage and earn Chaos Emeralds feels like a classic Sonic game?

This.
Sonic Advance 3 was nonsense.

I think what people are doing now is overlooking all of the BIG improvments made in Sonic 4... Over other recent Sonic games and blowing up the problems into some kind of 'epic game breaking bugs'...

Sonic Advance 3 had a really annoying, silly hub world as Barry mentioned...

It was full of grind rails, which has been one of the biggest complaints regarding Sonic games for years.

The partner system was much more 'un-sonic' then, say... the Homing Attack and while I havent played it for a while I bet you had to use it multiple times to finish the level.

The Sonic Advance art style always seemed very sterile to me, boring and plane... While I think Sonic 4 has got at least the level art spot on.

Not to mention it was full of 'shitty friends' like Cream the Rabbit... Which was ANOTHER big complaint... While Sonic 4 only has Sonic playable.

Collecting Chao?

GREEN EYES AND NO SPINNING LEGS? WORST GAME EVA!

I think some people are so caught up in trying to prove how terrible Sonic 4 is that they are going say any old shit is a better game...
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 06:00:00 pm by Guest »
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Offline ezodagrom

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Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
« Reply #1298 on: October 05, 2010, 12:17:27 pm »
Quote from: "Sharky"
I think what people are doing now is overlooking all of the BIG improvments made in Sonic 4...
Big improvements? What improvements? Other than graphics, everything else in Sonic 3 & Knuckles was better. With Sonic 4 being the sequel to Sonic 3 & Knuckles, a person would expect S4 to be at least nearly as good as S3&K, right?

Anyway, I agree with you about Advance 3. If anything, there was a decrease in quality in Dimps Sonic games over the years gameplay wise (when talking about physics, Advance 1 > Advance 2 > Advance 3 > Rush series, in my opinion).
And that's pretty much the only thing that I don't like about Sonic 4, the gameplay being slightly based on Dimps Sonic games that have the worst physics, the Rush series. ._.

If the physics were based on Advance 1 or even Advance 2 (without the boost at max speed), I would have been glad with Sonic 4 though.

Offline crackdude

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Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
« Reply #1299 on: October 05, 2010, 12:49:18 pm »
If this was 1996 and Sonic 4 was coming out as-is (16bit gfx though) it would be proclaimed as the best videogame ever. Homing attack would be revolutionary and fun.

But since this is 2010 and people have nostalgia so deep in their asses it's somehow shit, besides everyone who plays it but fans enjoying it.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 06:00:00 pm by Guest »
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Offline ezodagrom

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Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
« Reply #1300 on: October 05, 2010, 01:13:35 pm »
Quote from: "crackdude"
If this was 1996 and Sonic 4 was coming out as-is (16bit gfx though) it would be proclaimed as the best videogame ever. Homing attack would be revolutionary and fun.

But since this is 2010 and people have nostalgia so deep in their asses it's somehow shit, besides everyone who plays it but fans enjoying it.
I didn't really play the classics as a kid (barely played the first couple of stages of Sonic 2 and Sonic & Knuckles in friends houses), but recently I went through the major classics, Sonic 1, 2, 3 & Knuckles and CD, and I enjoyed most of them (except CD, that one, even with classic physics feels less fun than Sonic 4 Ep1 to me).

So, in my case can't say it's nostalgia for not liking certain gameplay elements of Sonic 4 Ep 1 (that is, physics and homing attack). :>
Of course, for some ppl it could be "nostalgia" that is "blinding" them. Be it those that think Sonic 4 is flawless, or those that think the classics were flawless.

Offline Sega Uranus

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Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
« Reply #1301 on: October 05, 2010, 02:17:00 pm »
Quote from: "Barry the Nomad"
So a game that features uncurling does not feel like a Sonic game (despite the fact that you haven't even felt it yourself) however a game that features pre-act hubs, unbalanced tag team moves, grinding and this method of obtaining chaos emeralds: The player needs to find 10 chao per level in order to access the Special Stage and earn Chaos Emeralds feels like a classic Sonic game?

Kind of a strange thing to claim. You do not need to play a game to realize it is similar to something and not similar to something else. He had fair points too, like how rolling actually worked.

Quote from: "Sharky"
I think what people are doing now is overlooking all of the BIG improvments made in Sonic 4... Over other recent Sonic games and blowing up the problems into some kind of 'epic game breaking bugs'...

I think some people are so caught up in trying to prove how terrible Sonic 4 is that they are going say any old shit is a better game...

You are thinking too much into this. While some are like this, when we were talking about this the other day you thought me saying I thought Sonic the Hedgehog 4: Episode I was going to get 6s and 7s everywhere was a way for me to crap on the game. I never said those scores were my opinion on it, but you still got frustrated regardless.

Quote from: "Sharky"
The partner system was much more 'un-sonic' then, say... the Homing Attack and while I havent played it for a while I bet you had to use it multiple times to finish the level.

Bullshit. Elements like this were hinted at as far back as Sonic the Hedgehog 2 and SegaSonic Arcade. Why should Sonic characters not be able to work together?

You do not need to use any partners to beat the game, but you did to collect Chao. In that case only the combination of Knuckles and Tails was of most use. Stupid ideas like if you have Sonic as your main character and Amy as your secondary meant Sonic could not spin when he jumped. I think this is a terrible idea, but for a spinoff there are much worse. Sonic the Hedgehog 4 is not a spinoff.

Quote from: "Sharky"
The Sonic Advance art style always seemed very sterile to me, boring and plane... While I think Sonic 4 has got at least the level art spot on.

Not hard to do when they literally copy everything from the original trilogy with minor tweaks. "Spot on" is not really the word, but stuff like that image Barry posted show clear improvements, and I am somewhat happy they actually went back to actually try and make it not look cheap as Hell.

And the ART of the Sonic Advance series was mixed, but had a lot of great stuff too, it was just the level design that was shitty. Check this out for instance.



I think that looks brilliant, and it is just one level from what most of us regard as the worst in the Advance series.

Quote from: "Sharky"
Not to mention it was full of 'shitty friends' like Cream the Rabbit... Which was ANOTHER big complaint... While Sonic 4 only has Sonic playable.

I am not sure how this is a complaint. Cream is a pretty lame character, but If Sonic the Hedgehog 4: Episode I had Knuckles playable, I am sure most people would be happy.

Quote from: "crackdude"
If this was 1996 and Sonic 4 was coming out as-is (16bit gfx though) it would be proclaimed as the best videogame ever. Homing attack would be revolutionary and fun.

But since this is 2010 and people have nostalgia so deep in their asses it's somehow shit, besides everyone who plays it but fans enjoying it.

Stop saying shit like this, it is literally retarded now when everyone else has accepted that it does change the overall design. Why is it okay if you say the game is fun, but if someone else were to say it is not or point out some basic complaint that he is suddenly an idiot and probably an asshole?

If the Holocaust happened in the 1870s would it have been a good thing, or any better at all? What if it happened in the 1960s instead? Way worse?
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Offline CosmicCastaway

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Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
« Reply #1302 on: October 05, 2010, 02:30:55 pm »
I think the biggest issue is most people are way, way more critical about games these days. I'm pretty sure most people just played games to have fun when they were younger and little flaws in a title didn't bother them, they would still have an enjoyable experience. Today most people won't give a game a try if it had bad reviews even if it was a game that they might highly enjoy.
That's why I try to approach titles with an optimistic attitude. A game may not end up being to my tastes, but if something really has my interest there is a very high chance I will enjoy it, and I'm positive I'm going to have a ton of fun playing Sonic 4.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 06:00:00 pm by Guest »
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Offline crackdude

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Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
« Reply #1303 on: October 05, 2010, 03:33:37 pm »
Quote from: "Sega Uranus"
Quote from: "crackdude"
If this was 1996 and Sonic 4 was coming out as-is (16bit gfx though) it would be proclaimed as the best videogame ever. Homing attack would be revolutionary and fun.

But since this is 2010 and people have nostalgia so deep in their asses it's somehow shit, besides everyone who plays it but fans enjoying it.

Stop saying shit like this, it is literally retarded now when everyone else has accepted that it does change the overall design. Why is it okay if you say the game is fun, but if someone else were to say it is not or point out some basic complaint that he is suddenly an idiot and probably an asshole?

If the Holocaust happened in the 1870s would it have been a good thing, or any better at all? What if it happened in the 1960s instead? Way worse?
Where the fuck did I say that it doesn't change the design? I even said it would be revolutionary, as in completely different. Stop putting words in my typing.

My point was that judging a game based on a design chance is rubbish. And I was reminding that if this game had been released a year after 3&K it could possibly be the best (or worse) of the series. There would be no predisposition to the design change.

Imagine S4 being released back then, followed by 15 years of no Sonic game at all. Everyone would expect S5 to have homing attack and would rage if it didn't, because S4 had made it "a staple of the series" 15 years ago.

It's all a matter of perspective. And the fact that some people criticize that it's bad because it's different is stupid.

There ARE physics flaws, there ARE potential troubling glitches.. But in the end homing attack will never break this game. At the very worst, it's implementation will.

And what does the Holocaust have to do with anything? That's an inappropriate comment at best.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 06:00:00 pm by Guest »
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Offline Sega Uranus

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Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
« Reply #1304 on: October 05, 2010, 04:26:05 pm »
You kind of missed my point. The homing attack is not any kind of revelation to 2D Sonic, even Iizuka admitted not having it in those games was part of the fun!

Sorry if my comments went too far though, just getting sick of some of these responses I am seeing in here and online. People trying too hard to defend every little detail about this game are just as bad as the people that go out of their way to pick apart the bad details.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 06:00:00 pm by Guest »