Sonic the Hedgehog 4: Episode 1

[Aki-at]

Welcome NiGHTS! Was wondering when you would show up.

[SOUP]

I liked what I saw in that new video.
Even if Dimps is involved, I'm not worried at all. Street Fighter IV was pretty solid.

[Psycho Echidna]

Sf4 was not developed by Dimps. It was ported.

Sonic 4 is developed by DIMPS which is the scary part. They can port it ( I will not be worried by that) but making the art/music/level design is very scary from such a developer.

[Waffle]

When I got Sonic 1 on Genesis, it had the best graphics I had seen in a video game. I expected the same effort here.

You can't be serious... The best graphics ever?

Yeah, I can be serious. SEGA should be doing the best 2D games possible with their main franchise, as they used to do.

[Barry the Nomad]

What's the big fucking problem with Dimps?

Metacritic scores:
Sonic Advance - 87
Sonic Advance 2 - 83
Sonic Advance 3 - 79
Sonic Rush - 82
Sonic Rush Adventure - 78
Sonic Unleashed WiiS2 - 66 (6 more than the PS360 version, plus factor in the werehog hate and the hating for the sake of hating)

We have yet to even know WHO is developing the game. Could be Dimps with Iizuka directing or acting as lead Game Designer, could be Dimps in collaboration with key Sonic Team members from the HD Unleashed, could be Yu Suzuki with a fake mustache.

Also, regarding the "speed boost, speed gimmick, speed gimmick, speed boost", consider this paragraph posted by Sega regarding Needlemouse:

Speed is something that is not given; but rather earned through dedication. Speed is not found by simply pushing a boost button, but by building momentum. It is the reward for skill in the face of difficult challenges – this kind of speed is the most exhilarating, not only because it is fast, but because of the pure perfection such speed exemplifies. This is the truth of the original Sonic games – and this is the truth of Project Needlemouse.

Also, I found this on the nets:

[Aki-at]

SEGA isn't trying to sell a console anymore nor is this meant to be the next main Sonic, not defending the faults or anything, just sayin'

What's the big fucking problem with Dimps?

They got worse as they went along, specifically their games became less platform based and more about running and avoiding traps than just a good mix of the three, especially with how insane the speeds of some of the games go out (See in particular, Sonic Advance 2)

Of course they did also make Sonic Pocket Adventure, but the problem arises that either they, or Sonic Team directing them, became extremely focused on speed.

Although what I saw so far was good, with about three or so multiple roots, they've already started putting speed boosters in the first level!

Also, regarding the "speed boost, speed gimmick, speed gimmick, speed boost", consider this paragraph posted by Sega regarding Needlemouse:

SEGA also said they would fix all the glitches in Silver the Hedgehog and that Sonic would be returning to his roots of saving orphaned princesses and fighting Satan.

And Lost Labyrinth has giant death balls of doom it seems.

[Orta]

lol Dimps. It was expected. Clearly there's not enough people at Sega to make a 2D Sonic. I'm gonna buy Black Knight now so I keep supporting this crap.

[Waffle]

Speed is something that is not given; but rather earned through dedication. Speed is not found by simply pushing a boost button, but by building momentum. It is the reward for skill in the face of difficult challenges – this kind of speed is the most exhilarating, not only because it is fast, but because of the pure perfection such speed exemplifies. This is the truth of the original Sonic games – and this is the truth of Project Needlemouse.

They said this would be a sequel to Sonic 3/K, which it obviously is not. It is just using the name to get hype.

They then implied excessively that this would be in the Genesis style, it is not.

They also said they would be making it for the 'retro fans', but now it is clearly presented and stated to be for 'old and new fans'.

Next they said the were going to split off the new Sonic from the old Sonic instead of trying to please everyone, which is now apparently not true.

So overall they are liars. Just look at the boost pads.

[Barry the Nomad]

They said this would be a sequel to Sonic 3/K, which it obviously is not. It is just using the name to get hype.

Direct quote from Ken Balough of Sega:
While the game is a brand-new adventure, it will definitely pick up after Sonic & Knuckles. However, what you are looking at is the beginning of a new story arc.

Intro from the website:

But this humiliating defeat only serves to further Eggman's rage, and he has determined once and for all to rid himself of Sonic. Eggman revisits - and improves - the very best of his creations to defeat our spiked hero. And so a new Adventure begins...

It obviously is a direct sequel. Oh, and the title is Sonic 4.

They then implied excessively that this would be in the Genesis style, it is not.

They hinted that it would have a retro feel, but never implicitly said "it will have 16-bit sprites and will look exactly like a Genesis game". You (and many others) read it the way you wanted to read it and are now hurt that you were wrong. Meanwhile many other fans read Sega's hints differently, with what we now have as the true finished product in mind.

They also said they would be making it for the 'retro fans', but now it is clearly presented and stated to be for 'old and new fans'.

Despite the inclusion of new fans, the game is STILL for retro fans. Even you yourself just admitted it.

Next they said the were going to split off the new Sonic from the old Sonic instead of trying to please everyone, which is now apparently not true.

Show the quote from Sega.

So overall they are liars. Just look at the boost pads.

boost pads do make or break a game. You're overacting. I liked you more when you make smart ass one sentence comments.

[east of eastside]

My take on all this is that as long as this game sells well, and I think it will, good things will come from this.

If this game isn't 100% what you want maybe Sonic "5" or whatever next year will be another step closer to what you want.  The point is, the success of Sonic 4 will send the message loud and clear to Sega that the old-school retro audience is alive and profitable and designing games tailored to their tastes is a commercially rewarding direction for the company.

[Sega Uranus]

My take on all this is that as long as this game sells well, and I think it will, good things will come from this.

If this game isn't 100% what you want maybe Sonic "5" or whatever next year will be another step closer to what you want.  The point is, the success of Sonic 4 will send the message loud and clear to Sega that the old-school retro audience is alive and profitable and designing games tailored to their tastes is a commercially rewarding direction for the company.

I thought that the Genesis games being some of the best selling games on downloadable platforms would have made SEGA think this long ago?

Waffle said it best. They are not going to try to target one fanbase directly, we should have known this all along, and I feel stupid as shit that I ever started to believe them after all that has happened.

[SOUP]

I think it looks plenty like the old games.
The checkerboard design is back.
The colourful levels, instead of realistic cityscapes.

I don't really see them changing the Sonic design back to the 16 bit one, now that the new design is basically the SEGA brand.

Looks fine to me.

[Sharky]

Some right drama queens here! Funny that some of the people that spend so much time making fun of Sonic fans are acting just as bad.

Boost pads? homing attack? green eyes? Dimps? ... completely trivial.

Chances are Sonic Team haven't made a real 2D game in years and probably do not have the means anymore. Which Dimps have... There are still plenty of ST members working on this game.

Just because this game isnt going the mega man 9 root of 'old school for the sake of old school' doesn't mean it's doomed to be a bad game. Let me speak freely for a moment with out pandering to the 'if you don't agree with this your not hardcore' mentality but FUCK megaman 9... If I had played Megaman 9 in 1994 I would have said the same thing. What a dodgey peice of shit, it's retro for the sake of it because 'retro is cool' not because it is a good, well made game.

I can just imagine of Sonic 2 came out today, with some of you peoples mentality. 'OMG What is this automatic roll 'spin dash'? whos this tails character? what happened to the original specials stage? Sonics run animation has changed! SONIC AM RUINED!'

Every old Sonic game brought in new mechanics AND new characters... The same can be said for Sonic 4... It isnt a big deal.

What matters is nailing the momentum, level design and animations...
Thats the only problem I've seen in this game so far... Everything else is trivial and there is no reason Dimps can't make just as good if not better Sonic game then Sonic Team.

[Sega Uranus]

You are as dumb as the people you are making fun of if you think the boost pads and homing attack are completely trivial. These change the game a lot.

Adding boost pads everywhere can completely ruin good level design. Considering how Sonic Team is, I expect them to be everywhere in every level.

The homing attack has always been forced and worthless in the 2D games. Why even add it in a "Classic" game when they know it does not work? It either means the level design is going to be based around this (most likely a bunch of badniks over a bottomless pit) or just useless altogether. Not to mention that if it is on the same button as jump that means you are going to lose the momentum jump you could do from the Genesis games, you know how if you held the jump button while you hit a badnik or monitor you would keep bouncing up higher? Removing this is not the end of the world, but it helped make exploring in the Genesis games so amazing and it will be majorly missed.

For the graphics... I think it graphically looks on par with early shitty 2D original PlayStation games. All of the platforms it is coming to can at least do Dreamcast-level stuff, so it should be doing that at the very least. This is SEGA's star franchise and probably one of their attempts to make him as important as Mario and Halo, when this is the case "Good enough" should not be in their vocabulary.

Saying Sonic Team needs help to develop a 2D downloadable game is complete nonsense... They make MMOs for handhelds FFS... If three guys can make flash games of the same quality in a garage in a month, I do not see why Sonic Team cannot do better.

I am not even going to join in on the Mega Man 9 thing, that is a shit typhoon of responses waiting to happen.

All this said, I think the game will still be good, and I am looking forward to it. It just should not have been called Sonic the Hedgehog 4.

[SOUP]

The homing attack has always been forced and worthless in the 2D games. Why even add it in a "Classic" game when they know it does not work? It either means the level design is going to be based around this (most likely a bunch of badniks over a bottomless pit) or just useless altogether. Not to mention that if it is on the same button as jump that means you are going to lose the momentum jump you could do from the Genesis games, you know how if you held the jump button while you hit a badnik or monitor you would keep bouncing up higher? Removing this is not the end of the world, but it helped make exploring in the Genesis games so amazing and it will be majorly missed.

Isn't that one of the paramount elements of the old 2D Sonic games?
One button that does everything?
Simplicity of control and all that jazz