Author Topic: Sonic Generations Discussion  (Read 140180 times)

Offline Pao

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Re: Sonic Generations Discussion
« Reply #135 on: April 19, 2011, 05:23:10 am »
@Crazy Tails.

I agree that Generations isn't my "ideal" Sonic game I've been waiting for, nor what I expected for the anniversary, the 3D segments looks like Unleashed which I didn't like, I was pretty disappointed to hear that the game is split in two, 2D and 3D, I do not like such inconsistencies.

But...
I've begun to ponder over the idea of playing previous levels from the Sonic series in 2D classic gameplay (which looks great from the footage), I'd love to see SA levels being played in 2D, the 3D levels will probably be decent like Unleashed, you can get good amount of fun from them, but what Impressed me most was the 2D, lets hope they don't force you to play the 3D stages in order to progress through the game.

I can say that I'm pretty excited, I hope Sonic Team has chosen some great levels to remake.

I'm 99% sure we're gonna see Ice Cap Zone!
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 06:00:00 pm by Guest »

Offline Suzuki Yu

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Re: Sonic Generations Discussion
« Reply #136 on: April 19, 2011, 07:22:39 am »
Quote from: "CrazyTails"
The m.sonic gameplay looks bad imo. I really dislike how they totally forgot about sonic colors and went with unleashed, which scored bad on even the daytime fronts. This is so mindboggling to me, as if they were not aware of the succes of colors. How the hell...? The majority loved colors, almost everyone did fgs. I guess maybe the "storybook team" are seperate from the unleashed team. Making the unleashed style engine bearable by adding platforming and good level design still didn't make it "excellent". 3d Gameplay was mostly automated. Some people complained that unleashed engine doesn't work for good platforming. I mean I personally loved the game but I gotta be honest that they were right to an extent. The physics engine of unleashed, while adjusted in colors, still does not have the precision of the adventure sonic engines.
While sonic colors was great, I would have rather had them overhauling the physics engine into something similar to the adventure series. I would agree that the adventure games are dated, but honestly the adventure formula could do so much win if it just got the right treatment(please don't come up with sonic 06), if it got tweaked and tuned the right way.

It's like with super mario galaxy building upon mario64 and feeling similar, but yet 1000 times better.

i am in the opposite side , totally happy they've returned to what Unleashed was and i was expecting this unless i would be really angry at them.
Unleashed levels design can't be more epic! sonic's speed is crazy and you have more control over your character (remembering the crappy quick step & drift system in colors) ..... and why the hell would i want the power-up back in my sonic games! and if they want to carry on with such elements so bad then they should create "Colors 2" and call that a franchise in it's own! sorry but this is not what i want from a 3D sonic game.

also i should note that what we saw is a very basic level with a very little to do, that doesn't mean the game won't get more complex latter on, this is wasn't the case in unleashed as well, hell Unleashed levels were much much more challenging than most of the 3D sonic games including colors which was so easy most of the time up to aquarium Park!  

you can say i am fully satisfied about what i saw, what's left are the levels they are going to choose? within the classic franchise there are too many great levels across all the games to choose from, but for 3D games i would like them to pick-up most of the levels from SA1. to me it has the most atmospheric levels among the 3D games.

Quote from: "Pao"
@Crazy Tails.

I agree that Generations isn't my "ideal" Sonic game I've been waiting for, nor what I expected for the anniversary, the 3D segments looks like Unleashed which I didn't like, I was pretty disappointed to hear that the game is split in two, 2D and 3D, I do not like such inconsistencies.

i can't understand! what's so wrong about this!
this is in fact a huge + for the game to me...
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 06:00:00 pm by Guest »

Offline Pao

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Re: Sonic Generations Discussion
« Reply #137 on: April 19, 2011, 08:06:38 am »
Quote
i can't understand! what's so wrong about this!
this is in fact a huge + for the game to me...
There is nothing fundamentally wrong with it, its just that I don't like the fact that its not all 3D, I had hoped that they will make a 3D Sonic game with proper platforming and improved level design, but they just decided to split the game like that, its just like saying "proper platforming cannot be done unless we go 2D", they're not trying to Improve their 3D gameplay from what I've seen, its still Unleashed-style with less emphasize on jumping and free platforming.

I want to play a great Sonic 3D platformer with improved mechanics and level design without having to switch to 2D just for that. You like Unleashed and I respect your opinion, I do think there is good amount of fun you can get from the daytime stages, but its not my ideal Sonic game.

But I got over that now, and I'm pretty excited just for the 2D gameplay alone (Unless they force us to play the 3D parts to progress through the game)
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 06:00:00 pm by Guest »

Offline Barry the Nomad

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Re: Sonic Generations Discussion
« Reply #138 on: April 19, 2011, 08:28:40 am »
If you watch the Spanish gameplay video, you'll see that it's not a total split. Modern Sonic still has his 2D sections, so it's not completely 3D the whole time.

Also, we have seen very little of the game, so I wouldn't jump the gun and assume they swept Colors under the rug. Stages could very well slow down a bit later on in the game, giving more of that Colors feel to the Modern Sonic stages. Of course they;re gonna go all out speed for the first Modern Sonic stage of the game, they want to "wow!" gamers with the "wtf speedz!". Anyway, I'd wait and see before jumping to conclusions.

As for Sharky vs. Sanus, here are my thoughts:

Taking ONLY the Sonic stages from Sonic Adventure under consideration, I'd say thematically and stylistically they are the greatest 3D stages every found in a Sonic game. They fuse real world with the bizarre Genesis era worlds and cover just about every environmental cliche found in the Genesis games. Gameplay wise, it was a nice fusing of the classic abilities (spin dash, spin attack) and modern powers (lightspeed dash, homing attack). However, my major beef with Sonic Adventure, in hindsight and compared to Colors, is that there could have been so much more (queue Bentley Jones song) to the stages. Instead of having Big and Amy stages, why not have 2 acts per Sonic stage? That's what I loved about Colors. Not only did I get to play a fun first act, but I'd also get five more acts in the same environment and each one I was playing as Sonic. Sure some were short or 2D puzzles, but they made much more use out of the environments than Sonic Adventure did.

Sonic Adventure 2 nearly perfected the Sonic stage gameplay: tighter controls, instant lightspeed dash rarely malfunctioned, much more fluid and varied stages. Despite the stages themselves not feeling as much like classic Sonic environments, they were very original and didn't feel like a lazy rip off of the previous game. City Escape and Emerald Coast are far more different than the Green Hill and Emerald Hill zones. However, my beef with SA2 was that I only was able to play as Sonic in six stages (plus 1 bonus stage and 1 final stage, though that required playing as every other character).

Anyway, point I'm getting at is that Colors really knew how to create a complete Sonic-only game. However, I totally agree that SA1 and 2 did a lot of things right. Personally, I'd love to see a game that combines the Sonic Adventure gameplay (slower paced 3D gameplay and the occasional speedy sections) with the stage structure of Colors.

Generations isn't quite that dream game of mine, but it looks to be close. I'm guessing we'll have 10 environments with 4-6 acts each, divided between Classic and Modern. Classic Sonic will give me that slower paced gameplay that I loved in the Genesis and Adventure games, while Modern Sonic will offer up the speedy gameplay. Hopefully playing more like a well paced Planet Wisp and Mazuri than this:

[youtube:1wka37ls]lOfYrts__Sk[/youtube:1wka37ls]

I love the speed run videos for their craziness, but I also dislike how they get a bit TOO fucking fast.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 06:00:00 pm by Guest »

Offline CrazyT

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Re: Sonic Generations Discussion
« Reply #139 on: April 19, 2011, 09:00:33 am »
That speedrun was insane lol.

I  can understand everyone's views. I just wish there was some free roaming gameplay. It's like they are not able to make some decent 3d platforming and ultimatly restrict it only to 2d gameplay like pao said.

I was really looking forward to blaze classic sonic with great controls through Ice cap in 3d. That was the image I had in my mind.

What we're getting is cool, but not really all that great for a 20th aniversary celibration imo.

And i'm happy for Suzuki Yu that he likes it. It just shows that this game seems to cater to most fans. I just would've loved some free roaming gameplay :$
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 06:00:00 pm by Guest »

Offline Barry the Nomad

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Re: Sonic Generations Discussion
« Reply #140 on: April 19, 2011, 09:11:07 am »
@ CrazyMilesPrower:
What's an example of the sort of free roaming gameplay that you enjoy? I lean towards the type found in SA1's Windy Valley, Lost World and the final segment of Speed Highway (at dawn). Where it's still linear and constrained enough so you don't get lost, but there is enough space to run about in and explore.

These areas were rare in Unleashed, but I liked the larger rooftops in Empire City, where exploring the roof earned you extra lifes and medals:

« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 06:00:00 pm by Guest »

Offline CrazyT

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Re: Sonic Generations Discussion
« Reply #141 on: April 19, 2011, 09:44:54 am »
Lost World is a good example but a little bit more complex, more open and more alternate paths. It's ever since sonic colors they added alternate paths into 3d sonic games(not shortcuts), both in 2d and 3d. Aquarium park act 6 had the right idea. It's pretty well done for what they had to work with. You have that bit where you can take the spring to the right or use the green hover wisp to take the top road.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dct14Y_dzQU

But it just feels so restricted with unleashed controls.

because unleashed controls themselves have been either slippery(unleashed) or stiff(colors).  when going fast they have to build narrow paths for the player to keep control. I don't know if you ever tried running fast in the hub worlds of unleashed in the open stage select parts(specifically mazuri), but it wasn't pleasent at all. Steering felt worse than racing games.

It's not like in sonic adventure where running fast and steering was tight. Running in mystic ruins, station square and egg carrier just felt so right(I love hub worlds). I just wish that I could have done something like that in a more classic themed open world with classic sonic. And yeah again Lost world is a great example of how i'd like a 3d stage to be.

Think about it you know. The unleashed style gameplay doesn't allow much inovation. When you think about it most stages feel a bit the same. Just watching that gameplay video,  that green hill stage could've been apotos but with changed polygons and textures. There's nothing like the classics or adventure games where every stage is built on it's own theme and gimmicks.

This kind of gameplay is impossible with unleashed formula

[youtube:1va6jrkp]x2pXEzZ7VYw[/youtube:1va6jrkp] All a new sonic would need is improving on this <
Just watch the whole video, it has unique level design. The gravity bit at 3.25 was pretty neat

As is the last stage final rush. Really unique.

The only stages where I can imagine them implement Unleashed formula with slight adjustments are metal harbor and green forest.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 06:00:00 pm by Guest »

Offline Radrappy

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Re: Sonic Generations Discussion
« Reply #142 on: April 19, 2011, 12:52:59 pm »
I know how you feel CrazyTails.  When I see the GHZ recreated in 3d, part of me aches that with all of that beautifully rendered level, you're stuck on his tiny fenced off path.  

Hey all, jumping into this impressions thread a lil late.  Im really excited for this game and had a hard time focusing at work yesterday because of it.  After watching the gameplay a few times last night though, I do have some pretty serious concerns.

It appears that Modern sonic plays 100% like Sonic Unleashed and 0% like Colors. Which isn't surprising seeing as its made by the unleashed team, but is bad news none the less. The speed stages from the HD versions of Unleashed were sloppy boost fests with minimal player input and as a result just weren't very much fun. It's hard to see where you're going and the designers punished players often with cheap deaths for not knowing the stage. I realize that following the Unleashed model versus the Colors one will lead to better contrast between the styles as the Colors model favors the platforming and precision which classic sonic already monopolizes, but this will result in extremely frustrating and broken modern Sonic sequences.

Some awful things I noticed from the modern Sonic gameplay:

-Boosting is ring based again which guarantees more or less unlimited boost. In colors, believe it or not, boosting was hard to come by and was a lot harder to abuse as a result. Unleashed encourages the player to be constantly boosting leading to, you guessed it, cheap deaths via pitfalls.

-They've removed the double jump from colors and replaced it with that awful spazzy mini homing attack from Sa2 - Unleashed. The double jump was a fucking god send in terms of platforming and being responsible for not careening off the edge of stages. The fact that its gone is definitely a step backwards.

-Level design favors the narrow narrow racetracks made popular in Unleashed's first level, Apostos. Colors had tracks as well, but they were wide, giving the illusion of freedom at the very least. These fenced off speedways are serviceable but arbitrarily restrictive. Why not widen them out as in Colors? It would even provide more opportunities to inject multiple routes.

-I swear to god if there are any run-on-water-instant-death sequences returning from Unleashed I will not buy this game. Colors delt with underwater sequences magically and even gave you the option to skim on the top if you were going fast enough.

All in all, it just seems like the Unleashed team hasn't taken any notes from what worked so well in Colors which is very troubling indeed.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 06:00:00 pm by Guest »

Offline Sharky

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Re: Sonic Generations Discussion
« Reply #143 on: April 19, 2011, 02:00:22 pm »
Doesn't take long for people to start complaining does it...

I think of all the things I dislike about Sonic fans... It's the fact that no matter how much Sega get right they'll very quickly forget that and latch onto anything they got wrong. (In their opinion)

We've only seen the smallest bit of gameplay on one level... I hope some of you don't pick everything in your life apart like you do Sonic games. God help anyone who has to live with you if you do.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 06:00:00 pm by Guest »
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Offline Barry the Nomad

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Re: Sonic Generations Discussion
« Reply #144 on: April 19, 2011, 02:36:27 pm »
Large fandom groups always get this way. The first few years are magical, but then as the fandom and the whatever it is they're fans of grows, more and more opinions are formed. Eventually the original intentions of the whatever changes, creators/developers/directors leave, whatever it is goes to other forms of media, etc. Pretty soon what was originally one great video game has fans of the original game, fans of the modern games, fans of the cartoons, novels, tv shows, etc.

I'm big into The Simpsons and Star Wars, so I've heard more than my fill of classic versus modern (both with the first ten years of The Simpsons and the last ten years and the Star Wars prequels versus the original films). It used to give me a headache, but now I just say "fuck it!" and avoid big debates. Sometimes I get into them (I'm a fan, sometimes I can't help it) but most of time time I just enjoy what I enjoy and ignore what I hate.

That's why sometimes I'll start up talking about how I enjoyed Sonic 4, and then when the detractors start talking I give up. Not enough time in the day to enjoy something AND have to defend it. If I like it, I'll enjoy it. If you hate it, go ahead and hate it, just don't call me out for liking something.
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Offline CrazyT

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Re: Sonic Generations Discussion
« Reply #145 on: April 19, 2011, 02:42:34 pm »
Come on now, can't we just express our thoughts? If you ask me the worst thing about this fanbase is people not accepting critisism. Remarks like green eyes are rediculous, but just look how that remark was blown out of proportions while it could've been easily ignored.

At first I was positive but now i'm skeptical. I have been mostly right in my predictions. I remember being positive about colors on day one as well. I pay attention to the details. I noticed stuff like the boost gauge not being filled up by ring energie, the same gauge emptying fast when using the boost, sonic being slower than he was in unleashed, ring placement reduction and more emphasis on platforming. Those things were clear even from the first tropical resort trailers and I saw good balanced game design.

Sonic generations m.sonic portions look like colors never even happened. I just feel it's a bit awkward while sonic colors scored really well among critics.

I remain skeptical about c.sonic gameplay too, but i'm sure i may enjoy it just like i did with most of colors even if I expected some free roaming 3d. But it looks allright.

I just became a little bit too excited I think. Not weird when the game has been in development for pretty long and being made for 20th aniversary.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 06:00:00 pm by Guest »

Offline Suzuki Yu

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Re: Sonic Generations Discussion
« Reply #146 on: April 19, 2011, 02:51:54 pm »
@ Radrappy
FYI there are no such things as Unleashed team / Colors team ....  
people at Sonic Team nowdays are working together , all sonic team studios in the past few years like Unleashed team , SR/BK team and the USA team all merged into one big sonic team.

Quote from: "CrazyTails"
Sonic generations m.sonic portions look like colors never even happened. I just feel it's a bit awkward while sonic colors scored really well among critics.

i swear SU would have scored well if it's not better than Colors if it wasn't for the were-hog
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Offline Barry the Nomad

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Re: Sonic Generations Discussion
« Reply #147 on: April 19, 2011, 03:06:25 pm »
Quote from: "CrazyTails"
Come on now, can't we just express our thoughts?
I assume you're talking to Sharky, but if not I'm all for people expressing their thoughts (as long as they're grounded and not simply "green eyes" and "where's Silver!?!") :)


Quote from: "CrazyTails"
Sonic generations m.sonic portions look like colors never even happened. I just feel it's a bit awkward while sonic colors scored really well among critics.

I'd assume it's because this was in development long before Colors released. Colors released in November 2010, I'll bet the Generations team were well along in development by that time. Still, there are influences from Colors, the red rings, the removal of QTEs (now a QTE ramp has you doing optional joystick movements to make Sonic pull off tricks, think SASASR mid-air tricks or NiGHTS into Dreams tricks) and possibly refined 2D Modern segments.

Quote from: "CrazyTails"
I remain skeptical about c.sonic gameplay too, but i'm sure i may enjoy it just like i did with most of colors even if I expected some free roaming 3d. But it looks allright.

C.Sonic gameplay looks to be like a toned down Sonic the Hedgehog 2. Or more like a Sonic 1 with spin attack. He doesn't seem to move at the speeds he does in Sonic 2, nor does it look to have the shield gimmick of Sonic 3 or the homing attack gimmick of Sonic 4.

I'm looking forward to playing it, but it doesn't look to bring anything new to the table. The major draw looks to be the fully 3D graphics. I have to facepalm when I hear people say "this should have been Sonic 4!" as I am certain a Sonic 4 (not counting the one that already exists) would not rewind time to the Sonic 1 Sonic with a spin dash. It's more like a loving homage to Sonic 1.
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Offline MadeManG74

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Re: Sonic Generations Discussion
« Reply #148 on: April 19, 2011, 03:16:01 pm »
Honestly, it looks quite nice, but I'm not expecting too much.

I don't really understand the love for Sonic Colours, so I'm expecting this game to be decent but not great. Fingers crossed.

Also, I thought Unleashed was generally well recieved here, but now it seems a lot of people don't like it?

My biggest concern is that the 2D sections will play like Sonic 4, hopefully they've made a lot of changes.
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Offline CrazyT

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Re: Sonic Generations Discussion
« Reply #149 on: April 19, 2011, 03:23:37 pm »
Yeah the first piece was aimed towards Sharky. I'm glad you're cool about the critisism Barry. I don't know how it affects those who are excited by this game, but I can disagree with others's critisism as well. Like you said, I just simply ignore them or argue with my views on the matter.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 06:00:00 pm by Guest »