Do you still like Sega? - Redux (Post E3 2013 Edition)

[tarpmortar]

Why is it a problem? If I enjoy it, it means these games are made for people like me. Otherwise, they are not for me and I shouldn't bother. As long as they don't break any laws, I think it's pretty fine.

There are games for everyone. Why shouldn't there be games for dudes that love some TnA?

I agree with you on this, I'm definitely on the side of "sexism" (which is entirely subjective for the most part) isn't an issue in terms of content. It's only an issue within the workplace if it's there. The Alicia drawing though is just fucking stupid, it's not faithful to her character, period. If it were Selvaria I probably wouldn't care.

[CrazyT]

Why is it a problem? If I enjoy it, it means these games are made for people like me. Otherwise, they are not for me and I shouldn't bother. As long as they don't break any laws, I think it's pretty fine.

There are games for everyone. Why shouldn't there be games for dudes that love some TnA?

Alright fair enough man. It's more of a cultural thing I guess. I can't really seem to point my finger/desribe to what bothers me about it. Maybe it's when things are blatantly and primarily created to arouse the male. I just think that's a cheap way of selling something. I really like bayonetta as well, but she doesn't seem very superficial but has a very strong character.

[crackdude]

I think a character can be strong regardless of sex appeal. To me sex appeal and depth aren't related.
I value depth imensely more, but a character that is pleasing on the eyes is always welcome

[CrazyT]

Sounds about right. I think we are focussing too much on the female side here, since it's more noticable and happens more often perhaps. But yeah a good/cool looking character doesn't require depth to be appealing. Best examples are the silent protagonists from games like zelda or the earlier final fantasy games and other rpg's.

Character design is very important to me and I do feel that SEGA's strongest points throughout has been the great character appeal. Look no further than the allstar games. I just wish they valued them more. But then there's the business side, and you won't ever know if shining force would have been dead if it never went the tony taka direction. Or pso2 if it didn't focus more on being a dress up game(I imagine they make a lot of cash on that).

It seems strange. On one side they are being fine with doing "anything" with their strong IP's, and on the other side they ask us what kind of mascot we'd like to see. SEGA has plenty of brilliant IP's that we all love. Unlike nintendo where it's getting stale, SEGA can still bring so much out of them.

[Aki-at]

Character design is very important to me and I do feel that SEGA's strongest points throughout has been the great character appeal. Look no further than the allstar games. I just wish they valued them more. But then there's the business side, and you won't ever know if shining force would have been dead if it never went the tony taka direction. Or pso2 if it didn't focus more on being a dress up game(I imagine they make a lot of cash on that).

Phantasy Star Online 2 is the most successful Phantasy Star game ever, beating sales expectations every quarter. The PSVita version sold over 100,000 units at retail and a further 400,000 users it for free. It shows you how strong the franchises has become when it can still shift significant numbers at retail despite being f2p.

Shining Force was on the brink of being killed off completely. The Shining Force remake and both Shining Soul games flopped hard on the Gameboy Advance until SEGA turned it into a dating sim. Then when they attempted an sRPG with Shining Force Feather, the series suffered the worst sales in Japan since the commercial failures of the Shining Force remake. So yeah, Shining Force would have been dead. Not that it excuses what they have done to the franchise, I would rather they start up a completely new IP, at least that way I could completely ignore the abomination the series has become.

It seems strange. On one side they are being fine with doing "anything" with their strong IP's, and on the other side they ask us what kind of mascot we'd like to see. SEGA has plenty of brilliant IP's that we all love. Unlike nintendo where it's getting stale, SEGA can still bring so much out of them.

That design a mascot competition has been completely taken out of context. Nagoshi asked fans to design a mascot for his podcast and one that embodied the meaning to be SEGA, that was it, nothing more. For some strange reason everyone took it as SEGA aiming to get rid of Sonic or what not, when all it was was a fun little competition for people to participate in.

[ROJM]

Shining Force was on the brink of being killed off completely. The Shining Force remake and both Shining Soul games flopped hard on the Gameboy Advance until SEGA turned it into a dating sim. Then when they attempted an sRPG with Shining Force Feather, the series suffered the worst sales in Japan since the commercial failures of the Shining Force remake. So yeah, Shining Force would have been dead. Not that it excuses what they have done to the franchise, I would rather they start up a completely new IP, at least that way I could completely ignore the abomination the series has become.

Aki, SHINING FORCE remake for GBA was the reason Sega continued with the series in the first place. It was SHINING FORCE NEO that floppedand the fact that the cheaper SHINING titles like TEARS were making money, that Sega decided to not continue with the FORCE titles after the PS2 became defunct and they moved the series to PsP.

That design a mascot competition has been completely taken out of context. Nagoshi asked fans to design a mascot for his podcast and one that embodied the meaning to be SEGA, that was it, nothing more. For some strange reason everyone took it as SEGA aiming to get rid of Sonic or what not, when all it was was a fun little competition for people to participate in.

True but its not the first time SOJ has tried to get rid of Sonic. CLOCKWORK KNIGHT to TEMPO seemed to be attempts to replace Sonic with a new system mascot for saturn.

[CrazyT]

Phantasy Star Online 2 is the most successful Phantasy Star game ever, beating sales expectations every quarter. The PSVita version sold over 100,000 units at retail and a further 400,000 users it for free. It shows you how strong the franchises has become when it can still shift significant numbers at retail despite being f2p.

Shining Force was on the brink of being killed off completely. The Shining Force remake and both Shining Soul games flopped hard on the Gameboy Advance until SEGA turned it into a dating sim. Then when they attempted an sRPG with Shining Force Feather, the series suffered the worst sales in Japan since the commercial failures of the Shining Force remake. So yeah, Shining Force would have been dead. Not that it excuses what they have done to the franchise, I would rather they start up a completely new IP, at least that way I could completely ignore the abomination the series has become.

I feel so conflicted about this. One side I am happy SEGA is having the succes with it, but on the other side, I just don't like them being encouraged going this direction at all. What happened(to japan) 

That design a mascot competition has been completely taken out of context. Nagoshi asked fans to design a mascot for his podcast and one that embodied the meaning to be SEGA, that was it, nothing more. For some strange reason everyone took it as SEGA aiming to get rid of Sonic or what not, when all it was was a fun little competition for people to participate in.

Yeah I figured it was something like that. Have they already shared the results of it, or was it simply for an internal thing?

[Radrappy]

Phantasy Star Online 2 is the most successful Phantasy Star game ever, beating sales expectations every quarter. The PSVita version sold over 100,000 units at retail and a further 400,000 users it for free. It shows you how strong the franchises has become when it can still shift significant numbers at retail despite being f2p.

None of this matters because the game is terribly un-fun to play.  I'm glad that they've tricked so many people into buying a copy but a quick look at any PS community (jp or na) will reveal that the game is universally loathed and has disappointed many.  An example would be this user review aggregate site that has the game sitting at a 1.75/5

http://onlinegamech.com/contents/review/reviewlist.html?gameID=138

So yeah, it may seem good for Sega right now but they're going to have a really hard time selling people on PSO3, let me tell you.   

[tarpmortar]

I read some of those PSO2 reviews, some were upset about the female clothing and others about the price of the microtransactions. I hope they figure out fair pricing in the west, otherwise they will be doomed. Valve's F2P model is really the one they should strive for.

Cosmetic items only, any weapons can be earned via drops or if you want them fast, you can buy them in a store.

[inthesky]

On the note of a Sega crossover, I'd be down. The issue with a Sega crossover is one that seems essential to most any crossover: choosing the best roster. Sega's history is so vast and and its situation a little unlike Capcom, I wonder how you'd do decent service to its history. Project X Zone was brought up: I was quite happy with the selections by and large because franchises I did not expect to see represented (RESONANCE OF FATE, VALKYRIA CHRONICLES) were in fact represented, and because of that game I came to be acquainted with SAKURA WARS. Like I said I come from a pretty narrow background of Sega fan, but I do recognize that some characters essential to how I identify "modern Sega" like Sonic, Kazuma, and Bayo aren't there. You include them and say NiGHTS and a few others I'd be happy, but obviously I should not choose a roster for this project or else Sega fans would threaten me. =P

The other issue is: What genre of game would we want? I don't know if fans would be down for another racer, at least not so soon. Sumo has reportedly done a great job with SaSRT and all that could change are about a half dozen roster additions at least, new tracks, and music. Some characters don't lend themselves well to this either (Bayonetta? Resonance of Fate gang?).

On the note of sexism, yeah it's subjective on some level. I think there's such a thing as fanservice content that is designed not to be aggressively patriarchal, fundamentally oppressive, or something of the sort, but the sad truth of it is it's influenced by the intent of the creator of a piece of art, so it's fuzzy of course. With the Alicia case, there are some pretty clear observational references that make it obvious that the art was intended for that kind of fanservice. It leaves a bad taste in my mouth, as was pointed out although she did wear a bikini for an extra scene in VC (and VC games have these types of scenes) her breasts are much different and there are varying levels of "offensiveness." We wouldn't want the only thing to remember Alicia by in game to be the beach scene.

Another example, think Morrigan from Darkstalkers: I think her design is authentic to a concept of a succubus without being fundamentally fanservice-y or symbolic of sexist attitudes. It can be interpreted that way in other media (i.e. fan art of her) though. Bayonetta...never played the game =P. I think the jiggling in PXZ is dumb and I wish it weren't there, but whatever.

[MadeManG74]

And that reminds me, Lollipop Chainsaw also sold extremely well here (Suda's most successful game ever)

It was more successful than Shadows of the Damned? Fuck this gay earth.

A bit like what happened with Streetfighter 2 and VIRTUA FIGHTER. The only one that hasn't been cashed in yet under the modern regime is SAKURA TAISEN, but time will tell on that one.

I don't think VF has had that many revisions to be honest, and from a fighting gamer's perspective these kinds of updates are generally welcomed, so long as they aren't too frequent (annual updates are the most frequent they should ever get, and even then it's a bit heavy sometimes). VF5 in particular had R and then FS, and both games had SIGNIFICANT updates for each that really changed the game.

[MadeManG74]

Just to clear up, I wasn't annoyed with Alicia in a swimsuit, I was annoyed with her character being redesigned to be better suited as a buoyancy device for titanic survivors than an experienced military scout.

Was it just some web based game though? It's probably just a case of some cheap fanservicey game. Like SNK does those Pachinko machines with KOF girls wearing shoe-laces to cover their bosoms.
It's just a throwaway cheeky game, not something that affects the main entry in the series.

Barry mentioned somewhere it's hard to be an SNK fan these days. It's true, SNK doesn't really seem to do anything anymore, but they are apparantly working on a new KOF which is enough for me. KOF XIII is one of the best fighters I've ever played in my life.

[George]

I didn't know that Lollipop Chainsaw Kill or whatever did that well. Fuck... really? Shadows the Damned looked so much better. I never bothered picking either up due to moving to PC gaming mostly. Maybe I'll hunt down copies and play them this summer.

[MadeManG74]

The other issue is: What genre of game would we want? I don't know if fans would be down for another racer, at least not so soon. Sumo has reportedly done a great job with SaSRT and all that could change are about a half dozen roster additions at least, new tracks, and music. Some characters don't lend themselves well to this either (Bayonetta? Resonance of Fate gang?).

Personally I would be cautious about another cross over game, just because I feel it would turn into Sonic and Friends again. I really disliked almost every decision made for the SSR games (although the second looks better than the first) and felt they smacked of a cheap Mario Kart clone and lacked anything distinctly 'Sega' about them.

I would hate nothing more than to see Sega make a crossover fighter for example, and it turns out as a Smash Bros clone. I would love to see AM2 make a fighter in the style of Virtua Fighter, but it's very unlikely that would happen rather than outsourcing it to an external team who includes BILLY FUCKING HATCHER instead of Kazuma Kiryu or something.

[ROJM]

It was more successful than Shadows of the Damned? Fuck this gay earth.
I don't think VF has had that many revisions to be honest, and from a fighting gamer's perspective these kinds of updates are generally welcomed, so long as they aren't too frequent (annual updates are the most frequent they should ever get, and even then it's a bit heavy sometimes). VF5 in particular had R and then FS, and both games had SIGNIFICANT updates for each that really changed the game.

Your only counting the ones with character updates, i'm talking about the games inbetween, which had various costume changes, create a costumes,fighter balance and so on. And most that was trying to appeal to the more otaku crowd. Since 4 its been like that.

The other issue is: What genre of game would we want? I don't know if fans would be down for another racer, at least not so soon. Sumo has reportedly done a great job with SaSRT and all that could change are about a half dozen roster additions at least, new tracks, and music. Some characters don't lend themselves well to this either (Bayonetta? Resonance of Fate gang?).

I think that's more to do with the mandate from Sega rather than the choices that they made. Effectively Sumo had to include most of the characters that appeared in the original SEGA SUPERSTARS as their template. That's why BILLY HATCHER automatically gets included,especially since they dont have to create a new build of a new character from the ground up. Saves money as it were.  Since then they've been allowed to use more characters. But even then its still a headache to get the permission from the team where that particular character resides in particular if they were from outside teams Like Platinum and Triace. And of course it depends if Sega wants these characters used in that game or not. it appears that if the game or similar game was made in Japan then Sega wouldn't have a problem including ROF or BAYONETTA characters as they deem them and certain other characters to be marketable in Japan than other characters that has appeared in the SUPERSTARS series so far.