SEGA hit by 73 people layoff, more focus on digital games

[Sharky]

I should have been more spesific, I ment when Sega trys to replicate Western developed games.. I don't think Sega should (at all) develop games that try to be western. But the problem is thats what sell these days.

As for Bayonetta, sure it isnt developed by Sega inhouse but Sega had enough to do with it and it plays like a Sega game enough for me to think of it as one.

While I would agree that in many ways Yakuza 2 was better then 3, all indications are that Yakuza 4 is better then all of them from the impressions I've read.

I dunno, while I'm totally agreeing Sega are not at their most healthy this year I'd be lying if I said I haven't enjoyed many of their games... (developed inhouse or not)

I'm far from giving up on Sega, they deffinitly didn't handle this gen perfectly but I think they will learn from their mistakes and get back on top of the game.

[Sega Uranus]

I am far from saying SEGA sucks or that this year is one of their worst. Their offerings lately have been some of the best they have given out this generation (admit it, their early HD offerings sucked), and I think with titles like Bayonetta succeeding against all odds it can only get better for the company.

My biggest issue with them personally is their releases are all over the place. Why do they have to release Yakuza 3 only on PlayStation 3? Why do they have to put excellent looking games like Phantasy Star Portable 2 and Project K on PSP exclusively? Why is Gain Ground Again only on mobile platforms in Japan? It is extremely frustrating for me because these are their games I want to play the most, but just cannot.

[Barry the Nomad]

My biggest issue with them personally is their releases are all over the place. Why do they have to release Yakuza 3 only on PlayStation 3? Why do they have to put excellent looking games like Phantasy Star Portable 2 and Project K on PSP exclusively? Why is Gain Ground Again only on mobile platforms in Japan? It is extremely frustrating for me because these are their games I want to play the most, but just cannot.

I think this problem isn't exclusive to Sega, it's something that most third party devs deal with. I love Capcom, but dislike that I'd have to own all three consoles and the PSP to enjoy all of their games.

[Sega Uranus]

My biggest issue with them personally is their releases are all over the place. Why do they have to release Yakuza 3 only on PlayStation 3? Why do they have to put excellent looking games like Phantasy Star Portable 2 and Project K on PSP exclusively? Why is Gain Ground Again only on mobile platforms in Japan? It is extremely frustrating for me because these are their games I want to play the most, but just cannot.

I think this problem isn't exclusive to Sega, it's something that most third party devs deal with. I love Capcom, but dislike that I'd have to own all three consoles and the PSP to enjoy all of their games.

I think with SEGA it is a more extreme case. Lost Planet II, Resident Evil 5, and Street Fighter IV are all on both HD platforms, and sometimes even PC, and in the later case they even made a good/decent alternative for Wii.

It is like, look how poor their SEGA Vintage Collection is. These are some of their best games ever, but they did not give them any thought and just let Backbone release anything that was above constant crashing. Look at Final Fight Double Impact, I dislike both of the games included on that, but I can greatly appreciate all of the work put into them. If SEGA did the same with remakes of Gain Ground and Crack Down in a pack with nice new graphics, music, extras and good achievements I would seriously go marry whoever made the decision to release that.

[Sega Stylista]

This East/West market paradigm deal that became so pronounced this gen needs to go to hell.  Wtf is so different about this gen from the PS2/Xbox/GC/DC gen that fucking western marketed games have to be western developed to sell and eastern games have to be westernized if not they stay in Japan???  That really screwed Sega this gen besides shitty Wii surprising and taking over the market.  I say fuck all that and Sega's internal studios should be working on titles with global appeal.  It's not impossible.  Maybe they are just afraid of the gamble?  And some of you guys don't get why I'm against mainstream western gaming. . .

Bayonetta is Sega style, it's a Sega game.

Sega needs to go strong with digital. I'm looking forward to Sonic 4 and I hope it is not only successful commercial but with fan appeal.  Sega could be looking strong again 2 or 3 years from this point.

[Barry the Nomad]

@Sega Uranus

My gripe is the uneven exclusive games that Sega is offering on the HD consoles. Last gen, you could own a PS2 and XBOX and have a great offerings on both consoles with little to no crossover:

XBOX: Orta, JSRF, Gunvalkryie, Crazy Taxi 3, Shenmue 2
PS2: SC5 Part 2, Gungrave, Rez, Virtua Fighter 4

This gen, nearly every game gets a release on both system with only a few not finding their way to the other. I very much doubt being an exclusive helps the sales of these games either.

360: Virtua Fighter 5 Online, Outrun Online Arcade (in the US), Virtual-On HD, Rez HD
PS3: Yakuza 3, Yakuza 4, Valkyria Chronicles

The 360 suffers from only having short arcade games as exclusives, while the PS3 suffers from having games that are not given as much support outside Japan. Valkyria's sequel was relegated to the PSP and Yakuza 4 may or may not come to the US/UK. If it does, it may not be for a while.

[Team Andromeda]

I should have been more spesific, I ment when Sega trys to replicate Western developed games.. I don't think Sega should (at all) develop games that try to be western. But the problem is thats what sell these days.

As for Bayonetta, sure it isnt developed by Sega inhouse but Sega had enough to do with it and it plays like a Sega game enough for me to think of it as one.

While I would agree that in many ways Yakuza 2 was better then 3, all indications are that Yakuza 4 is better then all of them from the impressions I've read.

I dunno, while I'm totally agreeing Sega are not at their most healthy this year I'd be lying if I said I haven't enjoyed many of their games... (developed inhouse or not)

I'm far from giving up on Sega, they deffinitly didn't handle this gen perfectly but I think they will learn from their mistakes and get back on top of the game.

Oh I see, but it’s not like SEGA hasn’t or can’t make games with worldwide Global appeal , as the likes of Crazy Taxi, Sonic  ECT show . Capcom isn’t any less Capcom, isn't less a Japanese Corp  for making Lost Planet , Resident Evil 5, SF IV, Dead Rising, on those games have gone on to before well in all markets.

Just contrast Lost Planet 2 to any of SEGA recent  offerings, there’s a game with some of the most stunning tech, use of art this generation (that was one a SEGA trademark) it’s also embraced LIVE and PSN with 4 player Co-Op and 16 player battles, On-line an area SEGA did so much, an area was so far Ahead of the game with the Dreamcast ,  Yet even Monster Hunter on the Wii, is far more impressive and technically better than any On-Line game SEGA produced in years (this after the late great Isao Okawa believed so much in On-Line).

Bayonetta isn't a SEGA game, and just because its uses some music and levels from SEGA classics doesn't mean its a SEGA game . Gunstar onthe GBA is still a Treasure game, not matter the homage to After Burner in it.
SEGA never made a Bayoneta style game in it's life , Bay is far more closer to the likes of DMC, Ninja Gaiden, than the likes of Shinobi or Blood Will Tell.
I don't meant to go on a constant downer, and do your head in, but I'm seeing SEGA failing behind all the time, and calling yet another Generation of hardware badly wrong. Maybe SEGA will have a stunning E3, and Toyko Game show, maybe the likes of Natal and Move will spark SEGA into Life.  I'm Sure SONIC Team have good stuff coming and will shock many, maybe even Ueda-san game is back on track . But I'm just getting so very sick of saying or waiting for the next E3, the next Toyko show,how... it will be different next year .

That doesn't mean, One is turning their back on the Company, or stop pushing and supporting the Corp. Its just right now, there's nothing from SEGA's Consumer Teams that I want to buy, much less looking forward too, other than downloads of Classic Arcade games and Console games, That's bad.

I just would like some of the old good times back, when you could put REZ, JSRF, Shenmue II, Crazy, Monkeyball  in ones console, feel proud, get a buzz and have a great time with a game only SEGA could produce , Call your mates over, and say look at the , there's not many games that look, sound better, or play better.  The last time I was able to to that, was when Val or VF 5 shipped, and that was years ago ..

[max_cady]

Not trying to pick a fight or anything but I think you are also giving too much credit to Capcom.

I played the original Lost Planet and I ended up selling it after just a few weeks of gameplay, despite it's western appeal, it's just not that great of a game. Maybe the sequel will be better, just maybe...

Dead Rising is a great idea, except when you start getting bored out of your mind after bashing your 300.000th zombie, because that's all you do, that is apart from some ocassional rescue missions and boss battles. Not much else.

Should we even bring up Dark Void as a very dissapointing entry from Capcom?

But I get what you're saying, it does show that japanese developers are taking baby steps to get the next-gen hardware they're working with, of course, that isn't so much a compliment as we are now 5 years into the current generation.

And, apart from Final Fantasy 13(and even that one was heavily criticized), what has SquareEnix produced on the 360 and PS3 that is even remotely enjoyable? Infinite Undiscovery is a terrible RPG, so was the shooter Project Sylpheed.

But of course, much of this does apply to Sega, but at least, Sega does seem to cater better to specific markets, as they rely a lot on Football Manager and Total War series, it might seem odd at first, but these two particular franchises have gotten Sega a strong foothold in the PC market, a venue thought to be dead, but Sega is sucking out as many pennies as they can.

[Barry the Nomad]

Bayonetta isn't a SEGA game, and just because its uses some music and levels from SEGA classics doesn't mean its a SEGA game.
SEGA never made a Bayoneta style game in it's life , Bay is far more closer to the likes of DMC, Ninja Gaiden, than the likes of Shinobi or Blood Will Tell.

I will disagree with this to the grave. Sega has their bright and shiny logo on the box and at the intro, the game was funded by Sega, the game was published by Sega, the game includes a plethora of Sega references (probably the most since Shenmue II)... how is that not a Sega game?

While yes, Bayonetta IS closer to DMC or Ninja Gaiden, Bayonetta shares the quirky over-the-top Sega style found in Jet Set Radio, Streets of Rage, Shinobi, HOTD: Overkill and Altered Beast. Characters like Rodin, Enzo and Bayonetta herself fit in very well with the likes of Captain Onishima, Professor K, Isaac Washington, Goro, Ren, Joy and Ulala.

Honestly, to say Bayonetta is not a Sega game is just stupid. I still like you though, Team Andromeda.  

[Team Andromeda]

Not trying to pick a fight or anything but I think you are also giving too much credit to Capcom.

I played the original Lost Planet and I ended up selling it after just a few weeks of gameplay, despite it's western appeal, it's just not that great of a game. Maybe the sequel will be better, just maybe...

Dead Rising is a great idea, except when you start getting bored out of your mind after bashing your 300.000th zombie, because that's all you do, that is apart from some ocassional rescue missions and boss battles. Not much else.

Should we even bring up Dark Void as a very dissapointing entry from Capcom

Not at all mate , I'm all for debates . Sure Lost Planet isn't for, or to everyone liking. Its a well produced game , its also using great Tech and using the Internet  more than any SEGA game I can think of (of late).
Sure Dead Rising isn't for everyone, but one can't deny its not a well produced game . I'don't like the GTA series of game, but not for one moment, will I make out, that GTA IV isn't a well made game , isn't using great tech, and making great use out of the Internet .

You can by almeans bring up Dark Void, but its only Published by Capcom, Its not like SEGA haven't published poor games, Planet 51: The Game.

And, apart from Final Fantasy 13(and even that one was heavily criticized), what has SquareEnix produced on the 360 and PS3 that is even remotely enjoyable? Infinite Undiscovery is a terrible RPG, so was the shooter Project Sylpheed.

I don't care much for Square and I never have done . I could point out that FF13  is pushing some brilliant graphics, sold by the Truck load, and Multi Platform . That FF 14 could be another top entry into the MMRPG market, where SEGA's next big Internet game ? .
All I will  really say , is that Project Sylpheed was bloody brilliant imo, and Wing Commader for the next Gen, which is why I loved it.

Most Japanese corps, were caught out, not only with the 360 selling far better than expected, the call for Internet games, but also inthe use of Middleware and Tech. But we're 5 years in, and SEGA still seems, not to know which direction to take.  I will say this though, until Sonic is fixed once and for all, there SEGA will never seem to be doing right, however unfair that is.

I will disagree with this to the grave. Sega has their bright and shiny logo on the box and at the intro, the game was funded by Sega, the game was published by Sega, the game includes a plethora of Sega references (probably the most since Shenmue II)... how is that not a Sega game

Microsoft funded Ninja Gaiden II , DOA IV ,  There's X-Box signs, HALO characters and stage in DOA IV.  Who made the game , Team Ninja or MS.  SEGA logos , SEGA credits in MSR, who  game do we see that has, SEGA or Bizarre Creations. Lot's of SEGA's logs in Gunstar Heroes , and SEGA References, how made that SEGA or Treasure.
 Lots of NCL References , Fan service and NCL logo's in Twin Snakes , how's game is that NCL or Konami's ? . What about F-Zero GX is that a SEGA made game or an NCL one , because of all the fan service, the Little NCL references through the game (even R.O.B)  and NCL logo's

While yes, Bayonetta IS closer to DMC or Ninja Gaiden, Bayonetta shares the quirky over-the-top Sega style found in Jet Set Radio, Streets of Rage, Shinobi, HOTD: Overkill and Altered Beast. Characters like Rodin, Enzo and Bayonetta herself fit in very well with the likes of Captain Onishima, Professor K, Isaac Washington, Goro, Ren, Joy and Ulala.

SOR ?, Those games you talk of, other than DMC share little in common
 There's more in Common with Bullet Witch and Bay (in terms of Art),  as opposed to Bay and  JSR

[Sharky]

One thing I will happily agree with TA is that Capcom have been doing better this gen then Sega have... But that's about the only Japanese publisher that has. But lets not pretend that Capcom have been faultless! games like Dark Void and Bionic Commando were pretty poor games. DMC4 was one of the worst in the series and while many seemed to like them, I didn't really care for Dead Rising or Lost Planet 1, Although Lost Planet 2 looks much much better. Dead Rising 2 looks very similar to the original and lets not forget the miserable one on the Wii.

But in Capcoms defense Street Fighter 4, Super Street Fighter, Monster Hunter Wii ect have been really good games and very successful.

(But Virtua Fighter 5 Final Showdown and the next HD PSO will wipe the floor with both! =D)

[Barry the Nomad]

Microsoft funded Ninja Gaiden II , DOA IV , There's X-Box signs, HALO characters and stage in DOA IV. Who made the game , Team Ninja or MS. SEGA logos , SEGA credits in MSR, who game do we see that has, SEGA or Bizarre Creations. Lot's of SEGA's logs in Gunstar Heroes , and SEGA References, how made that SEGA or Treasure.
Lots of NCL References , Fan service and NCL logo's in Twin Snakes , how's game is that NCL or Konami's ? . What about F-Zero GX is that a SEGA made game or an NCL one , because of all the fan service, the Little NCL references through the game (even R.O.B) and NCL logo's

^Sorry, there was a lot of letters and odd english going on up there^
So I'll do my best to make of it what I can.

In terms of DOA IV, I'd argue that unlike Bayonetta, DOA IV's devs WEREN'T inspired by Microsoft in the same way that Platinum Games was inspired by Sega. Particularly Bayonetta being inspired by AM2 classics both in gameplay and music. Without Sega, you can bet that segments like the motorcycle riding and missile piloting would not be in the game. Those segments were both tied to the plot and brought new gameplay to the game beyond the usual fighting.

DOA IV's inclusion of Halo elements, however, did not affect the gameplay in the slightest. Halo in DOA IV is no different from Banjo-Kazooie being in SASASR or Zelda being in Soul Calibur 4. Its a console exclusive character cameo. Replace Spartan-458 (Nicole) with a DOA character and the gameplay wold be no different. Basically, what I'm getting at is that Bayonetta's Sega references run much deeper than simple cameos. Platinum literally made 3D OutRun and Space Harrier inspired levels and weaved them into the storyline.

As for Gunstar Heroes or MSR, those games have their own levels of Sega influence and arguing for or against their "Sega-ness" has no bearing on Bayonetta. But, since you brought them up, I think they're Sega games as it is my belief that if Sega published it and owns the rights to it, then legally it's a Sega game. Aside from the legal fact of them being Sega games, both were influenced by Sega as per the Sega references you mentioned being in Gunstar Heroes and Richard Jacques providing the music for MSR.

It all comes down to how you view games. Do you look at it with your heart, or with your head? Personally, I go with my head first (did Sega publish the game and do they own the rights to it?) and then I go with my heart (What sort of influence did Sega have on the game?). It seems you are more heart than head, knowingly avoiding the true legal sense of Bayonetta being a Sega game and rather depending on feelings. It would seem you didn't feel enough Sega influence to  accept Bayonetta as a Sega game. I'm curious, by that logic do you consider 'Ivy the Kiwi' more of a Sega game than Bayonetta?

[Team Andromeda]

But that's about the only Japanese publisher that has. But lets not pretend that Capcom have been faultless! games like Dark Void and Bionic Commando were pretty poor games.

I'll not make out that everthing Capcom does it spot on , and not make out that Capcom have been Faultless. I'm making out they're one of the few Jp Corps with a clear direction , called it right on getting a Multi Platform, Multi Purpose game engine ready for its , right at the start of this gaming Generation, and have made brilliant use of Online.
Sure you can Highlight Dark Void, but was SEGA's Iron Man any better ?, was SEGA own update of Golden Axe, better than Bionic Commando ?.

DMC4 was one of the worst in the series and while many seemed to like them, I didn't really care for Dead Rising or Lost Planet 1, Although Lost Planet 2 looks much much better. Dead Rising 2 looks very similar to the original and lets not forget the miserable one on the Wii.

 I've never much liked DMC series after the 1st game, but DMC was a well made game , using some decent tech, and pleasing its fans. Lost Planet I thought was fab, stunning use of the Framework engine, inspired Art and design on the stages, and some great use of the Internet,  Fighting it out on a stage made to look like the floors of Capcom offices, was just the icing on the cake. Just a Japanese company that seem to have truly got it this gen. To be fair I've also been very impressed with FromSoftware. Chromhounds was the most fun On-Live I had this generation, enjoyed Nina Blade more than most games, and thought Demon Souls to be amazing,and used the Internet in brand new ways .


I can but hope, SEGA is working  hard on a full on Next Gen PSO, using a improved HedgeHog engine, and make Monster Hunter Wii, look like nothing. That AM#2 is bringing the likes of Border Break, VF 5 Final to the Home with massive new modes, GFX improvments and fully making use of Live. Maybe we'll get a Sonic 3D game , that floors people, for all the right reasons

[Team Andromeda]

In terms of DOA IV, I'd argue that unlike Bayonetta, DOA IV's devs WEREN'T inspired by Microsoft in the same way that Platinum Games was inspired by Sega. Particularly Bayonetta being inspired by AM2 classics both in gameplay and music. Without Sega, you can bet that segments like the motorcycle riding and missile piloting would not be in the game

The Space Harrier and AfterBurner type stages maybe, the bike parts I'm really not so sure, it didn't play that great, or remind me much of any SEGA racer. Most of bayonetta reminded me more of DMC, Ninja Gaiden  than any SEGA action game I can think off.

Platinum literally made 3D OutRun and Space Harrier inspired levels and weaved them into the storyline

They're just bonus games to break up the game, and a nice little bit of Fan service.

Halo in DOA IV is no different from Banjo-Kazooie being in SASASR or Zelda being in Soul Calibur 4.

No what I'm talking about , is whom you credit as the developers . Do people see it was SEGA that made SASAR or more Sumo , do people think NCL made Soul Cailbuir on the Cube, or  more it was Namco.

Sega games as it is my belief that if Sega published it and owns the rights to it, then legally it's a Sega game. Aside from the legal fact of them being Sega games, both were influenced by Sega as per the Sega references you mentioned being in Gunstar Heroes and Richard Jacques providing the music for MSR.

Well while that is correct . who do we really credit for making Radiant SilverGun onthe ST-V or Saturn . SEGA because they published in the Arcades , ESP becasue they published for the Home, or Treasure ?. What about Gradius V, do we feel its more a Konami game, than a Treasure developed game ?. Tbf though , I'll give credit to SEGA, for insisting Treasure make a Arcade game for them (which SEGA did ask)  

It seems you are more heart than head, knowingly avoiding the true legal sense of Bayonetta being a Sega game and rather depending on feelings. It would seem you didn't feel enough Sega influence to accept

No its because when I play F-Zero GX its more a SEGA game than a NCL one, when I play Sonic Vs Mario is more a SEGA game than a NCL game.
 SEGA may well have published and help out WARP with  Enemy Zero and D2  , but to me they're WARP games, not SEGA's.
SEGA may well have published and again helped out on Climax various games, but to me the likes of Blue stinger are Climax games .

Bayonneta is a Platinum game,and a game and a developer SEGA had to the good sense to sign up

[Sega Stylista]

Capcom style games and franchises are closer to mainstream western, Sega style is a lot riskier. Other than Crazy Taxi and PSO which there is no excuse for not having their next gen sequels, games like Rez, Jet, Panzer, and Shenmue didn't sell well to begin with.  Management is reluctant to commit major resources to projects that are going to be a gamble in the marketplace.  

Sega's layoff letter said they were going through a leadership position in digital through innovation and quality.  As long as they are genuinely thinking that way there is cause for optimism.