New Yakuza

[Sharky]

That's exactly what it is, people are muddling art direction with graphics when it comes to Sonic Generations/The Hedgehog Engine.

But if it looks good it looks good, what does it matter? Sonic Gen doesnt look flawless I'll give you that but it still looks brilliant and with a few extra bells and whistles it could easily compete with this new generations games.

Take a game like Journey for the PS3, The engine is probably technically not that powerful, but the game looks imo absolutely flawless because of the art direction and no amount of engine upgrades or powerful consoles would make any difference.

So who cares weather it is the engine or the art direction? The Hedgehog Engine with Sonic art direction can continue to compete while the Yakuza engine looks dated because it CANT support Yakuzas realistic art direction.

[Team Andromeda]

For someone as experienced as TA claims to be he should know this by now since we have seen games using art to make up for technical shortcomings.

You can't cover bad graphics engines or low polygons models with amazing Art as almost ever game these days will have the most amazing art and concept art . Spikeout on the XBox had real nice concept Art the game engine and piss poor textures and next gen shaders let the game down (even tho it had amazing draw distance) Ninja Gaiden 3 had great Art but it had a basic game engine and that let it down
Sonic Unleashed and Generations look good because they are using various effects and next gen shaders to make them look good that's why and trying to show off a single photo in a game like Sonic (which is never meant to be played at a snails pace isn't going to show the game off to its best and where its meant to look like the old classic 16 bit game)


If one was to look closer at most games even one on the XBox One and PS4 you see the odd low polygon models, pop up if you look closely enough even in a game like Ryse on the XBox One, even Forza Horizons 2 is using low polygons on objects and 2D effects on the grass on so on   . The Yakuza 0 looks average and poor on the PS4 because its simply reusing an old outdated engine, reusing old assets  and the team simply don't have enough time  to make any sort of major improvements  because they are just a single team (unlike Ubi or Activision's who will put different teams to their annual updates, giving each team at least 2 years to develope the game) 


Yakuza production schedule is just nuts . After any game is finished the Team will no doubt have a 3 week break and holidays like most Japanese developers , then a couple of months to prep the game and so will only have like 9 actual months to code and make the game , given their yearly schedule . That is nuts and sure way to kill creativity any hope of major gameplay or game engine improvements and a sure way in the end to kill a Teams will and see staff leave. 


How anyone can make out this looks poor is quite beyond me


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Le3IHvJCUcs

[ROJM]

But if it looks good it looks good, what does it matter? Sonic Gen doesnt look flawless I'll give you that but it still looks brilliant and with a few extra bells and whistles it could easily compete with this new generations games.

Take a game like Journey for the PS3, The engine is probably technically not that powerful, but the game looks imo absolutely flawless because of the art direction and no amount of engine upgrades or powerful consoles would make any difference.

So who cares weather it is the engine or the art direction? The Hedgehog Engine with Sonic art direction can continue to compete while the Yakuza engine looks dated because it CANT support Yakuzas realistic art direction.

Come on...YAKUZA's look is just about style as it is about the engine that powers it. YAKUZA isn't about pretty flowers or popping mushrooms. Its meant to have that grimy look of a japanese yakuza film and feel of a japanese crime novel and the engine is very good at doing it. And SONIC LOST WORLD just didn't look any different to SONIC XTREME in my opinion. In fact it looked like it was the same engine but a few steps above it.Not to say the hedgehog engine hasn't produced some good looking games..for what it is.

[Team Andromeda]

Its meant to have that grimy look of a japanese yakuza film and feel of a japanese crime novel and the engine is very good at doing it.

Yakuza moved and looked amazing for a PS2 but now its being outclassed by other corps Tech . Sonic is going up against the likes of Rayman and Mario and even against other type games the tech is good and holds up.


The trouble with Yakuza is the Team aren't given the time or the R&D budget and prep to make a fantastic new engine much less come up with new worlds any new sort of gameplay   . Its just the same old assets and same old worlds, even the trailers are exactly the same .


The trouble is  other teams have this this sort of tech to play with


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y5tBpPxdZGs


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BzW1vPNyClA


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KRk6q4aSpSI




SEGA Japan and the Yakuza Team next gen pipelines are just way behind

[ROJM]

Keep banging the same old drum....

[Centrale]

The trouble with Yakuza is the Team aren't given the time or the R&D budget and prep to make a fantastic new engine much less come up with new worlds any new sort of gameplay   . Its just the same old assets and same old worlds, even the trailers are exactly the same .

All I can say is, you obviously haven't been playing these games. Each one has a world that's at least 50% bigger than the one before. From 3 to 4, the number of protagonists quadrupled and with them came new fighting styles. Weapon crafting has been introduced and further developed each time. Fighting tournaments and fighter training have been added. I haven't even played 5 yet, but as I recall, it has five cities, right?

[Sharky]

Come on...YAKUZA's look is just about style as it is about the engine that powers it. YAKUZA isn't about pretty flowers or popping mushrooms. Its meant to have that grimy look of a japanese yakuza film and feel of a japanese crime novel and the engine is very good at doing it. And SONIC LOST WORLD just didn't look any different to SONIC XTREME in my opinion. In fact it looked like it was the same engine but a few steps above it.Not to say the hedgehog engine hasn't produced some good looking games..for what it is.

Didnt play lost world, it looked like crap, but it was also on the Wii U so graphically it was never going to be anything to write home about.

As for Yakuza, all I'm saying is the engine looks dated, one location looks fine while another looks really weird... In some indoor environments the lighting looks freaking weird, i cant even put my finger on whats wrong with it, but its like there's no lighting at all or no designated light source.

[ROJM]

Didnt play lost world, it looked like crap, but it was also on the Wii U so graphically it was never going to be anything to write home about.

As for Yakuza, all I'm saying is the engine looks dated, one location looks fine while another looks really weird... In some indoor environments the lighting looks freaking weird, i cant even put my finger on whats wrong with it, but its like there's no lighting at all or no designated light source.

And looks can be deceiving. Look at BINARY DOMAIN that uses the exact same engine as YAKUZA and that game had brilliant effects and was up there with the best third person shooters at the time. That's like saying that tekken was a better title than VF 1 and 2 when the board used in that was way more powerful even the saturn version. But because of the way it looked and played thanks to a buggy saturn game, people think Tekken was the better engine and game when it wasn't. DEEP FEAR another game surpassed Resident EVIL but because it was on a hardware deemed less powerful it was dismissed when the facts are that the Saturn was a more powerful system than the PSX. Even the RE saturn game shows that when you go into the specifics of the procesing power and the detail of graphics of that game compared to the PSX version. Also YAKUZA had the use of the Magical V engine to map faces and real expressions onto it. Something that Tecmo licensed from sega and used for Ninja Gaiden 2. So all this bullcrap TA likes to spout that the engine is outdated is not true when they've improved the engine numerous times with new tech.  YAKUZA may look dated but the engine is certainly not.

[ROJM]

All I can say is, you obviously haven't been playing these games. Each one has a world that's at least 50% bigger than the one before. From 3 to 4, the number of protagonists quadrupled and with them came new fighting styles. Weapon crafting has been introduced and further developed each time. Fighting tournaments and fighter training have been added. I haven't even played 5 yet, but as I recall, it has five cities, right?

Yep. Exactly and around 120 minigames to boot as well.

[Team Andromeda]

All I can say is, you obviously haven't been playing these games.

Have a look at my gamer tag if you must and you see that I've played Yakuza IV, I've also played the 1st Kezan on the PS3 , Yakuza III  (Both of which I can't prove but never mind) and still own Yakuza Dead souls on my PS3 and  Yakuza  I and II on my PS2  . Yakuza 5... well I've only played the demo and while it looked nice its not the most amazing tech and as for Ishin I only played the demo on my PS4 but the tech is nothing new and no way is it fitting of a SEGA Japan next gen game


So don't come at me on that one, thanks

From 3 to 4, the number of protagonists quadrupled and with them came new fighting styles.

Its much the same game with the same animation patterns, much the same gameplay and adding in the odd new style and move is a very basic thing . Yakuza IV suffers from much of Yakuza III issues with not just the graphics but its out dated battle system and the map system is outdated (not be able to mark your next destination and so on ) .

but its like there's no lighting at all or no designated light source

Yep and the water effects are basic and poor too . Yakuza looks amazing in the cut scenes but suffers when in-game 

Look at BINARY DOMAIN that uses the exact same engine as YAKUZA and that game had brilliant effects and was up there with the best third person shooters at the time.

That's over 2 years ago and in 2012 . The world moved on now . Binary Domain was the last game I played that displayed the old SEGA magic . The tech was brilliant, the AI amazing for a Japanese title  and SEGA Japan put its own spin on a established genre and used plenty of western film references


In short classic SEGA Japan and sadly one that's not what it once was

DEEP FEAR another game surpassed Resident EVIL but because it was on a hardware deemed less powerful it was dismissed when the facts are that the Saturn was a more powerful system than the PSX.

Deep Fear in no way features better GFX than Resident Evil 2 . It looks great for sure (and sounds better) but the main characters models aren't quite as good and there far more enemy characters on screen at the same time in RE 2

That's like saying that tekken was a better title than VF 1 and 2 when the board used in that was way more powerful even the saturn version.

Tekken 1 did look better than VF , but VF 2 on the Saturn kills Tekken 2 .

Even the RE saturn game shows that when you go into the specifics of the procesing power and the detail of graphics of that game compared to the PSX version.

RE looks worse on the Saturn for the 3D graphics : The characters aren't as smooth and the Saturn suffers with the transparent effects too

Also YAKUZA had the use of the Magical V engine to map faces and real expressions onto it. Something that Tecmo licensed from sega and used for Ninja Gaiden 2.

That's just for the cut scenes and facial mapping  lol not that Ninja Gaiden 2 won many pundits for its graphics in the 1st place,but thats a different matter . I don't think anybody has any issues with Yakuza cut scenes.  And well even SEGA magical engine as been suppased by the tech used in 2K or Ubi games now     

[ROJM]

Yakuza 5... well I've only played the demo

Then you haven't PLAYED the game. So you aren't in any position to say the tech is outdated when you haven't played the fifth title. Lost credibility right there...

Yep and the water effects are basic and poor too . Yakuza looks amazing in the cut scenes but suffers when in-game 

Rubbish.

That's over 2 years ago and in 2012 . The world moved on now . Binary Domain was the last game I played that displayed the old SEGA magic . The tech was brilliant, the AI amazing for a Japanese title  and SEGA Japan put its own spin on a established genre and used plenty of western film references

You were harping about YAKUZA being outdated tech two years ago. Don't bother to deny it because everyone have seen you post it up. Now you are back tracking and saying its two years old just to cover your own ass? Not good enough. You're stanch has been that the game engine for YAKUZA has never been updated and its out of date. You have been proven wrong that it hasn't been updated because of BD and the fact that you haven't played 5. Those two titles alone blows your entire argument to shreds and shows you are just spamming for the sake of it.

In short classic SEGA Japan and sadly one that's not what it once was

What the one that tried to shut down SOA who was responsible for making Sega a household name? SOJ that gave us the 32x and other great add ons that turned off the consumer? SOJ that ran the company into the ground more than one occasion? SOJ that can't be bothered to even localize their own titles to their own fans who have stuck with them thick and thin..yes classic SOJ is the word here...

Deep Fear in no way features better GFX than Resident Evil 2 . It looks great for sure (and sounds better) but the main characters models aren't quite as good and there far more enemy characters on screen at the same time in RE 2

 i said RE, i never said RE 2.Again another example of spinning lies and twisting peoples comments.

Tekken 1 did look better than VF , but VF 2 on the Saturn kills Tekken 2 .

Missed the point  again TA. VF1 was on model 1 which was still more powerful than what Namco was using.

That's just for the cut scenes and facial mapping  lol not that Ninja Gaiden 2 won many pundits for its graphics in the 1st place,but thats a different matter . I don't think anybody has any issues with Yakuza cut scenes.  And well even SEGA magical engine as been suppased by the tech used in 2K or Ubi games now   

Missed the point two. You said the engine was outdated and nothing used for it. That was an example of new tech implemented in use with the engine. Because the engine was used for ALL the ingame characters starting with KENZEN. So no you were just proven wrong once again.

[Trippled]

Yep. Exactly and around 120 minigames to boot as well.

120 different shops.

[Nirmugen]

The last video, now with more quality:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QirwHAliyJU


If you don't understand moonspeak, please, mute the audio and play this video :


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9D-QD_HIfjA

[Aki-at]

Also screen shots don't always show the full game off and the same game can look better or worse depending on different screen shots . I mean does Sonic Gen look poor in this

You clearly don't have a informed opinion to talk on graphics. Firstly;

- All the lighting is baked.
- Only Sonic's shadow is real time, some objects have no lighting (IE the goal ring)
- The stuff that does have shadows are baked in.
- Pretty much every object has simple geometry except Sonic, you can find that in the trees and flowers.

So until you can understand graphics and not art direction, stop replying to me because you clearly do not know what you're talking about. That picture shows you how bad Sonic Generations actually looks, thanks for proving my point.

But if it looks good it looks good, what does it matter? Sonic Gen doesnt look flawless I'll give you that but it still looks brilliant and with a few extra bells and whistles it could easily compete with this new generations games.

Take a game like Journey for the PS3, The engine is probably technically not that powerful, but the game looks imo absolutely flawless because of the art direction and no amount of engine upgrades or powerful consoles would make any difference.

So who cares weather it is the engine or the art direction? The Hedgehog Engine with Sonic art direction can continue to compete while the Yakuza engine looks dated because it CANT support Yakuzas realistic art direction.

But we are talking about technical markmenship Ryan, if you want to say "Well Sonic Generations has excellet art direction!" than no problem, but graphically? It's no way near competing in the great graphics department, it's just not there, let's not pretend it is something it's not. The lighting is mostly baked and the geometry is simple, you find it right through the game.

You can call the Binary Domain engine dated but let's not act like the Hedgehog Engine is a technical marvel.

[Sharky]

But we are talking about technical markmenship Ryan

But I'm not... I'm talking about a game that doesn't look jarring and dated. If you can make a beautiful game on an old engine then all the power too you. Sonic Generations, maxed out on PC looks fantastic. If that's due to the engine power or the art direction means nothing, all I care about is the game looking good... Which it damn well does.

Yakuza on the other hand; one minute it looks good, another its okay and the next it's poor as hell, I've never seen a game with so much change from one moment to the next.

When I'm playing a game I don't want to be taken out of the atmosphere because of the jarring way it looks. Which has never happened in Sonic Generations, except maybe when I first played it maxed out on PC to marvel at how damn hot it looked.

Yakuza I'm constantly going, 'that looks weird' 'whats up with the lighting in this place?'