New Yakuza

[ROJM]

We're on about SEGA Japan .
 

So am i. A company that is in charge of Sega west. A company that has to divide the funding between Sega america  adn Sega europe and their companies evenly in order to create game content. A company who gets it from Sega sammy. Who is meant to be slashing everything and going cheap all the way. Yet how do you explain the same companies funding Alien Isloation? Wait you can't?

SOJ. who just recently produced an arcade game in the form of The Surprising Sandbox. Do you have any idea you simpleton how much would have gone into R+D just to get the controls right...a control that uses sand? Then when you factor the main game and the cabinets and how many they have to make to create to fulfil the order costs a lot more than nothing.

But let's go into engines..that Borderbreak and SHINING FORCE uses...oh yes forgot those didn't you..and those engines have been tweaked with every installment.

But lets go to cutting costs. You complaing about sega using thre same hardware time and again. Wait..didn't they do that with Naomi? Didn't they do that with Naomi 2 didn't they build the hardware and just made boards to solt into the actual hardware time and time again to keep costs down? No difference to what they're doing now. And don't use Sammy as an example. The games he's talking about are the 2D games that Sammy use to make but Sega has taken over from. He's using those games as an example of sega going down when he's really misleading you.

TA you are a joke. Not only are you a joke but a bad one.You have lost ALL credibility in this forum. You presist in arguments that you have lost. You are trying to create an argument over geometry is ridiculous. What happened dude? You're girlfriend left you and you're taking  out on Sega and the world?
I don't need to keep it coming because this is more to the forum than to a joke like you.
Until you get you're senses back don't bother with me anymore. Good day.

[Nirmugen]

Could you please stop deviating the thread and focus about talking the new Yakuza game? :/

Comparing with AAA Western Titles doesn't help to prove your point, TA.
Multiplats western focused SOJ's games even with a spectacular engine and graphics don't sell well, never accomplish that and Sega already knew that.

If you want to declare that SOJ is "an old-tech developer" let me tell you that is the only JP developer that has used two well know engines in the business,Physx and Havok, and also aiming to reach 60 FPS with a good art direction and graphic stability everytime they do it.

Also, the last AC games always have an amount of glitches, bugs and all kind of graphics problems since the first day, and they are locked 30 FPS even in PC ports with the horrible U-play system.

Count that they develope their own engines, improve the tech in their arcades, use and know PC before any JP developer, enter the mobile market before anyone and make a true research to accomplish in that sector and you have a company that has maintain their tech updated all the time.

[ROJM]

Dude you want him to focus on YAKUZA but you give him debate bait like that? You're in for a rough ride ...
But great points. 

As for YAKUZA..the subject of this topic that TA keeps derailing...From the trailers..does anyone think that this RGG is closer in tone to the first title or more of the sanitised romanticised nonsense of the 4th and 5th titles? It seems that the trailer is trying for a darker theme..but i dunno if that really reflects the game....
And judging from his character face model..i'm hoping to god that there isn't gonna be a remake...

[Team Andromeda]

SOJ. who just recently produced an arcade game in the form of The Surprising Sandbox. Do you have any idea you simpleton how much would have gone into R+D just to get the controls right...a control that uses sand

Nothing compared to the R&D investment need for the likes of G-Loc 360 or AS-1 .  SEGA always done some wacky Arcade games , none more so than that dog walking one

Who is meant to be slashing everything and going cheap all the way. Yet how do you explain the same companies funding Alien Isloation? Wait you can't?

Sammy have vastly cut  SEGA R&D spend . Just because CA have one game with some nice tech does not mean SEGA is going wild on the spending front at all.   

let me tell you that is the only JP developer that has used two well know engines in the business,Physx and Havok, and also aiming to reach 60 FPS with a good art direction and graphic stability everytime they do it.

? They aren't engines but 'Middleware' for physics based calculations. And you're also completely wrong  on the likes of Havok. Capcom Japan, Fromsoftware, Konami, Namco have all used Havok middleware in their games.

AC games always have an amount of glitches, bugs and all kind of graphics problems since the first day, and they are locked 30 FPS

Bugs and glitches are in Yakuza games I'll think you'll find . In fact they'll always some sort of bug in games like that

count that they develope their own engines, improve the tech in their arcades, use and know PC before any JP developer, enter the mobile market before anyone and make a true research to accomplish in that sector and you have a company that has maintain their tech updated all the time.

SEGA wasn't the 1st  Japanese Arcade manufacturer to use PC tech in the Arcades at all, SEGA wasn't even the 1st Japanese corp  to have Polygon Hardware in the Arcades . Mobile I think again you'll find that SEGA was far from the 1st Japanese software corp , but that was also down to SEGA still trying to support its own consumer based Hardware and so joined the mobile phone party a bit late.   






 

[Aki-at]

We can and I don't think Kenzan, Yakuza 3 or IV were that great engines in game . I did liked Binary Domain engine, but now that's outdated and not uble to be scaled up to the next gen , like how the Anvil Next gen is for Assassin Creed Unity , while also able to support the 360 and PS3 versions of Assassins Creed Rouge .

Who said any of those three games had great engines? I'm debating that the Hedgehog Engine isn't.

That what I mean by other corps having next gen pipelines . Even the Sonic engine which you loved to slate did very decent things with PSO 2 on the PC and shows the engine is at least scalable.

Phantasy Star Online 2 is not a good example, the game does the same thing Sonic Unleashed/Generations etc did which is hide it's short coming through art direction.

Yakuza 3 Geometry is very simple in games like Yakuza III or IV . There's plenty of 2D assets being used for starters, shaders being used to give the impression of 3D but its just a flat object (like neck chain ect), there's no real time reflections being used (even though its raining ) Lighting effects that happen on the Battle moves and so on aren't reflected back on the scenery and the less said about Kezan water effects the better.

Yakuza has better levels of geometry than any Sonic games, that is the point. That's not to say Yakuza is good graphically, but it undeniably has more complex level of geometry (The NPCs alone prove that.) and a lot of the point you use against Yakuza can be exactly refer back to the Hedgehog Engine which uses baked lighting, likewise with real time reflections.

At this point why are you bothering to reply? All you've done is not only shown me you don't have a grasp of the discussion and futhermore all the points you used against the Yakuza engine can be also used against the Hedgehog Engine.

[Team Andromeda]

But lets go to cutting costs. You complaing about sega using thre same hardware time and again. Wait..didn't they do that with Naomi?

NA@MI was nice tech that was at least a match for the consoles around the time and NA@MI II was a great step up way above the DC and in many ways the PS2  . Ringendge and the likes of Lindberg were really low spec and I don't know why SEGA just didn't use the 360 chipset set for the Arcades like it did with Chihiro.


One could see the difference is Sammy and SEGA with Sammy's Atomiswave Board which didn't even have the spec of NA@MI 

But let's go into engines..that Borderbreak and SHINING FORCE uses...oh yes forgot those didn't you..and those engines have been tweaked with every installment.

Sigh... No good for SEGA Japan consumer lines . Like I said back in 2010 (was it) SEGA Japan done wonders with the basic PC tech they had, why that wasn't passed down to the consumer Teams I don't know . You might keep up the pretence but deep down most can see SEGA Japan have lost a lot of ground and aren't pleasing many old SEGA fans with their games and have very little to offer the consumer gamer

[MadeManG74]

Let's settle this, here are some facts about the new Binary Domain/Yakuza Engine:

* One Yakuza/Binary Domain engine 500-inch code makes more polygons then the first 8 rows at E3.

* Under full throttle, the Binary Domain/Yakuza engine consumes 1 1/2 gallons of polygons per second, the same rate of polygon consumption as a fully loaded Hedgehog Engine, but with 4 times the energy volume.

* Even with nearly 3000 CFM of pixels being rammed in by the supercharger on overdrive, the graphics mixture is compressed into nearly-solid form before display in 1080p. Cylinders run on the verge of hydraulic lock.

* Dual magnetos apply 44 amps to each physics line of code. This is the output of an arc welder in each line.

* At stoichiometric (exact) 1.7:1 air/polygon mixture (for graphics), the flame front of Blast Processing measures 7050 degrees F.

* Blast Processing burns yellow. The spectacular white flame seen above the Heat Moves in Yakuza 5 at night is raw burning hydrogen, dissociated from atmospheric water vapor by the searing exhaust gases.

* Baked Lighting procedures are totally consumed during a pass. After 1/2 way, the Yakuza/Binary Domain engine is dieseling from compression-plus the glow of exhaust valves at 1400 degrees F. The engine can only be shut down by cutting off its polygon flow.

* If run-code momentarily fails early in the game, unburned polygons build up in those cylinders and then explodes with a force that can blow Blu Ray discs off the console or PC in pieces, or blow the console in half.

* To exceed 300 polygons per minute in 4.5 seconds, Yakuza/Binary Domain engine games must accelerate at an average of over 4G's. But in reaching 200 polygons per minute well before 1/2 way through the loading screens, launch acceleration is closer to 8G's.

* If all the equipment is paid off, the developer worked for free, and for once NOTHING BLOWS UP, each video game costs $1000.00 per second.

* Yakuza/Binary Domain engine reaches over 300 polygons per meter before the Hedgehog Engine has begun idling.




That... IS POWER.

[Aki-at]

Let's settle this, here are some facts about the new Binary Domain/Yakuza Engine:

* One Yakuza/Binary Domain engine 500-inch code makes more polygons then the first 8 rows at E3.

* Under full throttle, the Binary Domain/Yakuza engine consumes 1 1/2 gallons of polygons per second, the same rate of polygon consumption as a fully loaded Hedgehog Engine, but with 4 times the energy volume.

* Even with nearly 3000 CFM of pixels being rammed in by the supercharger on overdrive, the graphics mixture is compressed into nearly-solid form before display in 1080p. Cylinders run on the verge of hydraulic lock.

* Dual magnetos apply 44 amps to each physics line of code. This is the output of an arc welder in each line.

* At stoichiometric (exact) 1.7:1 air/polygon mixture (for graphics), the flame front of Blast Processing measures 7050 degrees F.

* Blast Processing burns yellow. The spectacular white flame seen above the Heat Moves in Yakuza 5 at night is raw burning hydrogen, dissociated from atmospheric water vapor by the searing exhaust gases.

* Baked Lighting procedures are totally consumed during a pass. After 1/2 way, the Yakuza/Binary Domain engine is dieseling from compression-plus the glow of exhaust valves at 1400 degrees F. The engine can only be shut down by cutting off its polygon flow.

* If run-code momentarily fails early in the game, unburned polygons build up in those cylinders and then explodes with a force that can blow Blu Ray discs off the console or PC in pieces, or blow the console in half.

* To exceed 300 polygons per minute in 4.5 seconds, Yakuza/Binary Domain engine games must accelerate at an average of over 4G's. But in reaching 200 polygons per minute well before 1/2 way through the loading screens, launch acceleration is closer to 8G's.

* If all the equipment is paid off, the developer worked for free, and for once NOTHING BLOWS UP, each video game costs $1000.00 per second.

* Yakuza/Binary Domain engine reaches over 300 polygons per meter before the Hedgehog Engine has begun idling.




That... IS POWER.

Holy moly.

Jeez louise.

Sufferin succotash.

We are not worthy.

[Team Andromeda]

Who said any of those three games had great engines? I'm debating that the Hedgehog Engine isn't

I'm debating that the Hedgehog engine is better than Yakuza . Compared to other 3rd parties tech both Yakuza and Hedgehog are somewhat behinde .

Phantasy Star Online 2 is not a good example, the game does the same thing Sonic Unleashed/Generations etc did which is hide it's short coming through art direction

One it shows it's scalable and its now proven to run not just on the consoles, PC and also iOS (the less said about Binary Domain on the PC the better)  and as for the good Art Direction cop out . Well anyone who's had a look at Capcom or SEGA's artwork books over the years will see amazing art and concept art displayed for every game . Sadly even though the Art and Art Direction  It couldn't save Final Fight Revenge poor engine and graphics, or indeed Sakura Wars V rather lame graphics, PS Universe lame graphics or even the likes of Rise of Nightmares poor visuals .

Yakuza has better levels of geometry than any Sonic games, that is the point

Well one can debate that . All I say that is to me Sonic Hedgehog is more impressive engine than Yakuza 3, Kenzan or IV . Yakuza 5 engine  well that looks great, but seeing it running on the PS 4 and looking much the same isn't a great indication that SEGA Yakuza's Team next gen pipelines are up to the task or that the engine isn't really scaleable. 

[Aki-at]

I'm debating that the Hedgehog engine is better than Yakuza . Compared to other 3rd parties tech both Yakuza and Hedgehog are somewhat behinde .

And all you've done is shown... The engine isn't very good.

But finally you've admitted it is behind other third parties, next to actually admit it was never great in the first place.

One it shows it's scalable and its now proven to run not just on the consoles, PC and also iOS (the less said about Binary Domain on the PC the better)

What are you on about? Binary Domain is great on the PC, the sensitivity of the mouse is what killed it. Do you even know what you're talking about?

and as for the good Art Direction cop out .

Simple geometry all through out with baked lighting. How is that impressive? You seem to be mixing art direction for technical ability a lot.

Well anyone who's had a look at Capcom or SEGA's artwork books over the years will see amazing art and concept art displayed for every game . Sadly even though the Art and Art Direction  It couldn't save Final Fight Revenge poor engine and graphics, or indeed Sakura Wars V rather lame graphics, PS Universe lame graphics or even the likes of Rise of Nightmares poor visuals .

Random tangent that has nothing to do with the point at hand or misunderstanding my earlier points, okay, normal response from you.

Well one can debate that . All I say that is to me Sonic Hedgehog is more impressive engine than Yakuza 3, Kenzan or IV . Yakuza 5 engine  well that looks great, but seeing it running on the PS 4 and looking much the same isn't a great indication that SEGA Yakuza's Team next gen pipelines are up to the task or that the engine isn't really scaleable. 

No, you cannot debate geometry, or polygon count, or baked lighting etc these are facts that cannot be interpreted differently. By all means argue the GAMES might be better, that's subjective, the music, the art direction but geometry is based on fact and no recent Sonic games have managed to push beyond the standard, never mind the boundaries.

[ROJM]

What is the point to all of this. MM has just OWNED TA. TA's response...hedgehog is still better because i said so.

Aki has OWNED TA on geometry..fiance and several subjects...TA's response...
Its my opinion because my opinion is correct

I've owned him countless times than i care to remember...the latest being the supposed cost cutting measure and using four games as an example that they're still spending on the expensive stuff...TA's response? Blah blah soj is behind blah blah behind because they're not copying EA or Capcom...

I really see no point in you guys wasting you're time with TA anymore. We all know you guys are correct. We all have shown him countless proof to back our claims up in various topics. Yet he keeps on and on with no evidence to back it and points that never hold up. This is the definition of trolling. Carrying on something that has been proven without a doubt and on a topic that has nothing to do with what the topic is about. To me its just attention seeking. What can i say next to get the whole forum to pay more attention on me. EVEN when i've been made to look a fool and proven incorrect time and time again.

Its really no point continuing it. Just because you don't respond and he continues it doesn't mean he won the argument. All it shows is how clueless he's actually become. Remember this is a guy who judges YAKUZA 5 outdated engine on the basis of a frigging demo. That's all you need to know how faulty this whole argument is. Now can we get back to the real topic of YAKUZA Zero, AND STOP THIS GUY DERAILING THE THREAD?

[Nirmugen]

Ok, so I think Sega find a formula to publish a niche title like Hatsune Miku but they want to be secure. The support for the next game could be the point of change.

If Chain Chronicle is promoted like Brave Frontier by Gumi in the west, they could achieve another way to localize.
 
Now with the Yakuza Series,  it depends.
SS want the Asia Market.

CC and Puyopuyo seem to be popular right there.

They will try with this new RGG game.

Something is secure, like CC and Dragon Coins, if this game is popular in Asia, they might be try in the West,  although is more probable that PSNova and PSO2 are going to come first and that could be in a long time.

Anyway, the pattern that SOJ choose for their games is this:
Japan-->Asia-->West.

[Team Andromeda]

But finally you've admitted it is behind other third parties

? I've made out for years SEGA Japan tech is behind that of Capcom Japan and the likes of Fromsoftware , never mind the likes of Ubisoft and that was last gen , this gen it's sadly history repeating itself imo.

What are you on about? Binary Domain is great on the PC

Yes and playing Binary Domain with a mouse ? I like to use my 360 pad on the PC and no Binary Domain isn't that impressive on the PC other than the doubling of the frame rate . To me if was a lazy port even to the point of using console button prompts even if you're playing with the keyboard and just a total mess of control settings .

You seem to be mixing art direction for technical ability a lot.

No . One needs the pipelines to be able to model and handle what the Art team throw at you . I don't find Yakuza's engines that impressive at all and its not like they don't have poor lighting effects . SEGA Japan just don't seem up to the task these days .

nothing to do with the point at hand

? I put to you it wasn't poor Art or poor Art direction that made the likes of Sukura Wars V, Final Revenge and PSU look so poor  but more the poor graphics engines powering the said games .

By all means argue the GAMES might be better, that's subjective, the music, the art direction but geometry is based on fact and no recent Sonic games

Oh no I'll not make out the Sonic games are brilliant . I'm pointing out that Sonic Generations looks better uses more of next gen shaders and nicer effects than the earlier Yakuza games imo . Yakuza is meant to be SEGA AAA big gen productions and 'said' to be the game that gets the biggest spend . So you can forget Sonic for a moment to see Yakuza engine being behind the likes of Capcom's or From Software tech is just a bit of a comedown.

Aki has OWNED TA on geometry..fiance and several subjects.

Geometry I;ll may give him that, but Aki got his facts about Wii U and Wii launches a little  bit wrong , never mind that the current sales of PS4 and XBox One are way ahead of last generations , way way ahead  . Those are facts as Aki likes to say it when comes to geometry .


If you or Aki want to prove otherwise ..by all means . But the facts are the XBox One and PS4 are selling more  than their predecessors and the Wii enjoyed a much better launch than the Wii U (Mind you so did the Cube).


And to see you talk about finance makes me laugh. When you've yet to show where Capcom posted a loss over the last 10 years .

Remember this is a guy who judges YAKUZA 5 outdated engine on the basis of a frigging demo

Hey at least I'm honest . The days of importing a game that isn't translated are long over and I never made out overwise . Still I really really doubt you own much less have played Sonic Generations, Colours, Sonic Lost World   




 






 


 

[ROJM]

Wall of text...#1.2333467889999.49
 

 

[MadeManG74]

 

Chew you havisfaction a singlelicious satisfact to snack that up?