Jim Sterling - Talks Sonic series/Sonic Boom. Hits nail on head!

[Sharky]

I don't love the guy, but he's damn right here.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BY2HF4Lf9kI&feature=youtu.be

[George]

Imma leave this here:
http://www.destructoid.com/review-sonic-colors-187691.phtml

[Berto]

Imma leave this here:
http://www.destructoid.com/review-sonic-colors-187691.phtml

LOL. This one is funny indeed.

[CrazyT]

Jim Sterling seems more rational compared to the days of the colors review. Seemed to be more out looking for contreversy at the time. A bit of a dick mostly.

[Barry the Nomad]

See, heres the thing, Jim makes a good point... until he fucks up in thinking that Sonic Boom is a progression from Lost World. It is not.

Sonic Boom: Rise of Lyric, as discussed in the main thread, was SEGA West (specifically Simon Jeffrey) wanting to develop a main series Heroes sequel. SEGA of Japan said no, the didn't have an interest in Adventure Fields and Sonic's friends, but the idea stuck around and eventually around 2009/2010 it was decided to make it a spin-off series. Sonic Boom, if anything, is SEGA's answer to fans wanting a Sonic Adventure 3. It has the adventure fields, the multiple play styles, and the deeper focus on story. The problem is, the end product is just not a very good game mainly for the glitches and graphical issues, but also because SA1 and SA2 and even Heroes worked because they still had those speedier Sonic sections that were quite enjoyable. Sonic Boom: Rise of Lyric is like Sonic Adventure minus the Sonic stages, with the Heroes playstyle, and a gimped Werehog battle system.

Sonic Boom: Rise of Lyric is the wrong game to compare Lost World to. 2015's Sonic Team game is the game to compare Lost World to. Sonic Boom: Rise of Lyric, as I said, is SEGA trying to bring back play styles that a subsection of the Sonic fanbase enjoys, but the execution failed. And, to be honest, I'm kind of glad it did because I like Sonic Team's direction with the series. I was hoping that the return of Adventure fields and switching between characters did not take off, because it is not my favorite aspect of the franchise.

[Sharky]

Imma leave this here:
http://www.destructoid.com/review-sonic-colors-187691.phtml

But wither he's right or wrong then is irrelevant, (he's obviously wrong then.) He is STILL right now, in this instance.

Even forgetting what Barry mentioned with Sonic Boom. Sonic Team do keep trying to reinvent the wheel, throwing shit at the wall and hoping it sticks. Like new gameplay, bosses and all sorts because they have no faith that the original concept of Sonic vs Robotnik in a plain Sonic game with no gimmicky bullshit. And when they do get it right they SO FAR haven't built on that idea. Except perhaps more recently with Unleashed (day) > Generations.

[Barry the Nomad]

I think the problem is that Jim is looking at every Sonic release from a linear perspective, thinking that Colors impacted Generations which impacted Lost World which impacted Sonic Boom, but that is not the case. While reception to Colors may have impacted Generations a little bit, they (and the other games) were a year apart and by the time Colors released, Generations was far along in development. Another thing Jim fails to realize is that there are not only different dev teams with Sonic Team and Big Red Button, but Sonic Team themselves have separate teams. Here is the breakdown:

Sonic Team development team 1: Sonic Unleashed (2008) -> Sonic Generations (2011) -> Sonic's 2015 game

Sonic Team development team 2: Sonic Colors (2010) -> Sonic Lost World (2013)

SEGA West's idea for a new Heroes title (2007) -> hiring of Big Red Button (2009) -> after many delays and shifting of platforms game releases in 2014

When you look at it from that perspective, you can really see a more realistic progression. Unleashed team dropped the Werehog and implemented Classic Sonic stages for Generations, furthering improvements of the Unleashed Day Stages and implementing some things that the Colors team added.

Colors team presented a slower take on the Unleashed formula that still played very similarly, but emphasized a slower pace and powerups. Lost World continued this line of thought with an even slower pace, losing the boost and continuing to implement the power-ups (though to a lesser effect).

Boom was a SEGA West project that was aimed to be everything Sonic Team's games were not, focusing on aspects of the series that Iizuka no longer has interest in (Adventure Fields, friends). Like Golden Axe Beast Rider and Alien Syndrome, it was intended to be a massive reboot from an external dev. But unlike those, it had a longer development time and was relegated to a spin-off series.

For an idea of what 2015's game will be, look to the Unleashed/Generations team. They have been working on something since 2011, and had time to take input from Unleashed and Generations, as well as Colors and potentially Lost World. They might even be using some of Lost World's dev team.

[MadeManG74]

But wither he's right or wrong then is irrelevant, (he's obviously wrong then.) He is STILL right now, in this instance.

Even forgetting what Barry mentioned with Sonic Boom. Sonic Team do keep trying to reinvent the wheel, throwing shit at the wall and hoping it sticks. Like new gameplay, bosses and all sorts because they have no faith that the original concept of Sonic vs Robotnik in a plain Sonic game with no gimmicky bullshit. And when they do get it right they SO FAR haven't built on that idea. Except perhaps more recently with Unleashed (day) > Generations.

I agree, I don't get why every game had to have some kind of a twist in the last few years.
Sonic 06: Shadow Vehicles and Silver PHYSICS
Sonic Unleashed: Bad God of War ripoff
Sonic Colours: Wisps
Sonic Boom: Teamwork and battles etc

Sonic Generations looks to be the best of the lot simply because it was just sonic running and jumping.


I have so little faith in the series anymore but I do hope that there is a surprise for us next year.

[TimmiT]

Imma leave this here:
http://www.destructoid.com/review-sonic-colors-187691.phtml

So I take it you didn't watch the video? :V

I do agree with Jim Sterling. I also agree with Barry that different development teams make this somewhat harder, but even then the development teams should take inspiration from eachother's games. Both teams in Sonic Team have (or should have) access to the other team's work, like how Sonic Colours and Generations shared the same models for badniks and such and had the same kind of gameplay at its core. And they can still look at how well received the games are and take what people liked from those games. Nothing stopped the development team of Sonic Lost World to continue what was done with Sonic Colours and Generations. If they had used the same gameplay engine instead of trying to do something completely different again, they could have still looked at what people thought they did right with the two games before it.

The exception to that is of course Sonic Boom, with it being by a developer in a different country. And they seemingly started looking at what the game should be before Sonic Colours was released and was deemed to be the first good Sonic game in a very long time.

[Barry the Nomad]

Ideally, Sonic Team would have one team making Sonic games and they'd drop the leapfrog approach, but that would mean long gaps without main series games. But they could easily take the Mario route (which they already sort of do) and release more spin-offs like ASR and Riders games to fill the gaps. I'd be cool with 2 years between main series titles and good spin-offs like ASRT between those releases.

[TimmiT]

Ideally, Sonic Team would have one team making Sonic games and they'd drop the leapfrog approach, but that would mean long gaps without main series games. But they could easily take the Mario route (which they already sort of do) and release more spin-offs like ASR and Riders games to fill the gaps. I'd be cool with 2 years between main series titles and good spin-offs like ASRT between those releases.

This probably would be for the best. If Sonic Team is given enough time to make a great Sonic game, instead of making them rush it like was done with Lost World, then Sonic would likely have more good games. There's also that SEGA doesn't seem to give Sonic the same amount of quality control as say, Nintendo does with Mario. Each Mario game, spin-off or not, is polished and gets at least decent reviews. Worst case scenario with a Mario spin-off game is that it's a kind of uninteresting sports game, unless you really dig deep and get one of the old educational games or Hotel Mario. SEGA however has the tendency to rush Sonic games out for holiday release (see Lost World or Shattered Crystal), make bad mobile games that try to get as much money out of the player as possible (see Dash or Jump Fever) or sometimes give them to an incompetent developer or team (see Rise of Lyric). While the general quality of Sonic games isn't nearly as bad as ten years ago, a big reason why they aren't as good as they could be is because SEGA wants to put out at least one big Sonic game each year like Ubisoft does with Assassin's Creed or Activision with Call of Duty.

[Trippled]

Iizuka mentioned that the Generations team was brought in to finish Lost World. So there is no leapfrog approach with Sonic Team. Just full production and planning phases.

They have slowed down at least. 2005-2011 had a game every year, plus Riders games.

The pace of now of a 2 year gap from Generations onwards, is reasonable. If anything Lost World was not a rushed game.

[Radrappy]

Why does ST even have two teams any more?  It doesn't make any sense.  Just pool your resources and make a great game as opposed to releasing a game a year that never learns from the past entry. 


The 2 team format is a relic from when they needed an SD option as well as an HD one.  Guess what we don't have to worry about anymore?

[Trippled]

Why does ST even have two teams any more?  It doesn't make any sense.  Just pool your resources and make a great game as opposed to releasing a game a year that never learns from the past entry. 

Having no game in 2012, and this year, things seem to have changed a bit.

[Aki-at]

Why does ST even have two teams any more?  It doesn't make any sense.  Just pool your resources and make a great game as opposed to releasing a game a year that never learns from the past entry. 

It makes perfect sense from a business standpoint, SEGA needs a big Sonic game, mainline or otherwise, every year or their profits get a major hit. Sonic Boom I'd imagine was going to be that buffer, just like Sonic & Allstars Racing Transformed was in 2012. Besides it is the industry norm now, it's nothing strange having two major teams working in tandem. The Creative Assembly and Ryu Ga Gotoku Studios have two major teams too but what they have is better communication between each other. I'd imagine department heads are more experienced/better than Iizuka is at the job.

We'll see what the future holds though, it might just be outsourcing a major title to be developed in the West one year and then a major Sonic game from Sonic Team the following year.