The Top 100 SEGA Games - Discussion

[Sharky]

Glad to see the original Phantasy Star Online getting the recognition it deserves. What it accomplished at the time was unreal.

Myself and a friend of mine poured more time into the original Phantasy Star Online on Dreamcast and again on GameCube than literally any other game. We spent an entire summer break from school held up in a smelly dank teenager bedroom playing PSO, drinking and eating junk food. A golden era of gaming for me.

[EnternalHope]

Unless I missed something I'm really surprised Ristar hasn't been mentioned yet.

Sorry. I played it alot on Sega Channel during '95. Maybe its because alot here have never played Sonic Mega Collection/Plus.

[Centrale]

Sorry. I played it alot on Sega Channel during '95. Maybe its because alot here have never played Sonic Mega Collection/Plus.

It came out at an awkward time, very late in the 16-bit cycle. I know it's beloved by those who have played it, but I don't think it had as big of an audience as it would have had if it could somehow have come out two or three years earlier.

[pcm92]

25. Jet Grind Radio
24. Comix Zone
23. Shinobi 3
22. Crazy Taxi
21. Ecco the Dolphin
20. Nights Into Dreams
19. After Burner
18. Double Dragon
17. Prince of Persia
16. Yakuza 2
15. Comix Zone
14. Streets of Rage 2
13. Altered Beast
12. Virtua Fighter
11. Soul Caliber
10. Shining Force 2
9. Sonic Adventure
8. Psycho Fox
7. Alex Kidd
6. Mortal Kombat
5. Sonic the Hedgehog 2
4. Panzer Dragoon Saga
3. Shenmue
2. Sonic the Hedgehog
1. Quake

[Barry the Nomad]

So pcm92's list is making me think we might need a new rule... but I want some input first.

I know I said SEGA developed and published games were fair game, but I failed to think of the many many games that were published by SEGA in the home console era that SEGA played no part in developing. Should the likes of Quake and Mortal Kombat and Prince of Persia be eligible?

First off, from what I've found SEGA played no part in developing or publishing Mortal Kombat. Same deal with Prince of Persia. Only the MEGA CD version in Japan had SEGA involved as a publisher. Even then, none of these games – in my opinion – qualify as SEGA developed or published. SEGA doesn't own any of these IPs.

My issue also is that in the case of Quake, while SEGA did publish it for the Saturn, it is just such a tenuous connection and I feel it just takes advantage of the rules on page one. I feel that there is a loophole here that needs filling.

[Radrappy]

Should the likes of Quake and Mortal Kombat and Prince of Persia be eligible?

No way.  If they didn't even develop it, only games that Sega published AND hold the copyright for should qualify. 

A good example is the Guardian/Gunstar heroes franchises.  Both of these ips are owned by Sega despite Treasure developing them.  I don't know what the source is for this but on the wiki page for Advance Guardian Heroes it states: "Since Sega is the original copyright holder and wasn't interested in assuming the production of a sequel, Treasure had to license the intellectual property from Sega in order to carry out the game themselves."

The same thing happened with Bayonetta 2 more or less, Sega just had to give permission.  Both Advance Guardian Heroes and B2 don't qualify right now for the reason that Sega did not publish or develop. 

[crackdude]

Between developing, publishing and owning the IP, at least 2 of these should be applicable to games on the list.

[Barry the Nomad]

No way.  If they didn't even develop it, only games that Sega published AND hold the copyright for should qualify. 

A good example is the Guardian/Gunstar heroes franchises.  Both of these ips are owned by Sega despite Treasure developing them.  I don't know what the source is for this but on the wiki page for Advance Guardian Heroes it states: "Since Sega is the original copyright holder and wasn't interested in assuming the production of a sequel, Treasure had to license the intellectual property from Sega in order to carry out the game themselves."

The same thing happened with Bayonetta 2 more or less, Sega just had to give permission.  Both Advance Guardian Heroes and B2 don't qualify right now for the reason that Sega did not publish or develop. 

I think that is a fair way to put it. I know there are oddities, like ToeJam & Earl, but simple knowledge of the game's development point to it being eligible despite SEGA not owning the IP as they played a crucial role in the game becoming a reality. But I think we will take on the oddities with a case by case basis.

---

@pcm92 I'm going to need to request a edited list replacing Double Dragon, Prince of Persia, Soul Caliber, Mortal Kombat, and Quake.

Also, I'm uncertain as to the inclusion of Psycho Fox. I know VIC Tokai development it, but am not knowledgable of who owns the IP.

[Barry the Nomad]

Between developing, publishing and owning the IP, at least 2 of these should be applicable to games on the list.

That could work. I'm just running through possible scenarios where such a rule could be broken via a loophole...

Quake: SEGA published, but did not develop or own the IP - not allowed
Bayonetta 2: SEGA owns the IP, but did not develop or publish - not allowed
Castle of Illusion: SEGA developed and published, but does not own the IP - allowed
ToeJam & Earl: SEGA published, assisted in development (approved and paid for the game), but does not own the IP - allowed

I think this could work.

[pcm92]

@pcm92 I'm going to need to request a edited list replacing Double Dragon, Prince of Persia, Soul Caliber, Mortal Kombat, and Quake.

Also, I'm uncertain as to the inclusion of Psycho Fox. I know VIC Tokai development it, but am not knowledgable of who owns the IP.

You would obviously find things wrong with a new list that I post too, so why should I even go through the trouble?

[Barry the Nomad]

You would obviously find things wrong with a new list that I post too, so why should I even go through the trouble?

Yours is the first list that I found a handful of games that do not meet the criteria, and it was only due to the issue with third party developers and IP ownership. It was in no way me targeting you, and a revised list would be much appreciated. I'm not out to get anybody, just making sure the lists are in line with the rules. I'd love it if you could resubmit, but if you choose not to it is your choice.

[Radrappy]

You would obviously find things wrong with a new list that I post too, so why should I even go through the trouble?

Why the tone?  Did you honestly think Quake and Mortal Kombat should be considered for a list like this?

Genuinely curious. 

[Barry the Nomad]

News'd it on the front page, hopefully as the week rolls on we get more lists: http://segabits.com/blog/2015/10/26/tell-us-your-top-25-sega-games-submit-your-list-today/

Ideally, I'd like to hit around 40-50 lists by the end of the year, but I'm fine if we continue into 2016 as I've already noted the cutoff date of October 19th, 2015 for possible games.

Also, if any of you see the edit I made to TA's post, it was only removing the formatting code. The list is unchanged.

[FlareHabanero]

• Ecco the Dolphin II
• Vectorman
• Vectorman II
• Sonic Adventure
• Beyond Oasis
• Burning Rangers
• Dynamite Headdy
• Puyo Puyo Fever
• Sonic Generations
• Streets of Rage
• Streets of Rage II
• After Burner II
• Alien Solider
• Pulseman
• Hitsune Miku: Project Mirai DX
• NiGHTs into Dreams
• Sonic 3 & Knuckles
• Ristar
• Bayonetta
• Sonic & All-Stars Racing Transformed
• Puyo Puyo 15th Anniversary
• Jet Set Radio Future
• Gunstar Heroes
• Skies of Arcadia
• Puyo Puyo 20th Anniversary

[Barry the Nomad]

25. Ecco the Dolphin II
24. Vectorman
23. Vectorman II
22. Sonic Adventure
21. Beyond Oasis
20. Burning Rangers
19. Puyo Puyo Fever
18. Super Tempo
17. Streets of Rage
16. Streets of Rage II
15. After Burner II
14. Alien Solider
13. Pulseman
12. Hitsune Miku: Project Mirai DX
11. NiGHTs into Dreams
10. Sonic 3 & Knuckles
9. Ristar
8. Bayonetta
7. Sonic & All-Stars Racing Transformed
6. Puyo Puyo 15th Anniversary
5. Jet Set Radio Future
4. Gunstar Heroes
3. Skies of Arcadia
2. Puyo Puyo 20th Anniversary
1. Bayonetta 2

Good list! One point: Bayonetta 2 is not allowed as it only satisfies one of the three qualifications (SEGA owns the IP). Could you either replace it or bump everything down one and add a 25th game?