Shinobi: The Complete History

[Berto]

The Steam Summer Sale is coming in HOT! 🔥





https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ncDqGhg1-9Y

Grab up to 75% off SEGA games, including Sonic Racing: CrossWorlds, Like a Dragon: Infinite Wealth, Virtua Fighter 5 R.E.V.O. World Stage, and many more!
Sale ends July 10, 2026

Dive in now: https://bit.ly/SEGASummer26

[Mystic Monkey]

That's what I think.
Kinda like they compete with their own brothers/sisters.
Even here for event limited-time merchs, Persona merchs are always the one who sold out first in SEGA booth, usually followed by Project Sekai/Hatsune Miku: Colourful Stage. Not Shinobi, Yakuza, or even Sonic (but the numbers Sonic merchs are always more than others so it's understandable).

I think they're testing the possibility of releasing it again with Sonic Racing CrossWorlds.

Modern : Ichiban, Majima, Aiai, and Joker
Mobile : Red and Hatsune Miku
Comic : Tangle and Whisper
Dreamcast : Amigo and Axel
Saturn : NIghts and Sakura (rumoured)
Mega Drive : Arle and uh ... Classic Sonic
Master System : -

And also Sonic Rumble Party with Fantasy Zone, Altered Beast, Pengo, and Bonanza Brothers.



But since both CrossWorlds and Rumble sale numbers didn't meet their expectation so don't hope much for that soon.

As much as I would like a "Sega Superstars VR", at the same time if they were to re-release a brand-new Sega Superstars game, they should assure a good first impression that the VR-market may not provide.

Perhaps if the Sega All-Stars market side-games similar to Mario's sports, party and kart games?

Also, while I know that, in a way, Sega are "somewhat" at odds with Nintendo, do you think Sega could get an amiibo deal to have Sega All-Stars as amiibos? The thing about amiibos is that they're both collectible figurines, but with various purpose in games. I think "Sega Amiibos" would be a really good idea. That, or Sega release their own toys-to-life figures that can be used on PC.

In fact, other than Sega Superstars VR, my two ideas for Sega All-Stars games are:

• Sonic & Sega All-Stars Shuffle - A sequel of sorts to Sonic Shuffle, but the difference being you play as various Sega characters. Perhaps amiibos allow you to unlock various characters. It can still star Lumina as game master and have mini-games and boards based on various Sega IPs.
• Sega All-Stars Fighters Megamix - A sequel to Fighters Megamix, it can have three category of characters: "Rounders" who are average fighters such as the Virtua Fighters, "Agile" who are smaller, quicker fighters but lack endurance, such as Sonic the Fighters, and "Armoured" who are stronger than rounders, but lack endurance which they make up for in armour, such as the Fighting Vipers.

I can imagine Alex Kidd as an Agile-class fighter and Chariot from THotD as an Armoured-class fighter.

Perhaps also, it would be a good idea, if a Sega All-Star games also included the original games of the various characters (or at least a demo, depending on the filesize) that the heroes debute in. Especially given there are some fans sore over Sega taking down Sega Gen/MD Classics from Steam and all its games. For example if a Sega All-Star game had Ristar as a playable character, then perhaps the game Ristar itself is available to play? Something like that.

At least, those are my ideas/suggestions.

[Berto]

As much as I would like a "Sega Superstars VR", at the same time if they were to re-release a brand-new Sega Superstars game, they should assure a good first impression that the VR-market may not provide.

Perhaps if the Sega All-Stars market side-games similar to Mario's sports, party and kart games?

The thing is right now that kind of party games only sold well on Switch since Switch is synonymous with party games where family and friends play together.
If we release them on other system, they won't sell as good as on Switch.
If we release them on Switch, they'll get shadowed over Mario Party and Mario Kart.
Even a game as good as Sonic CW which is released on many platform is unsuccesfully striving against Mario Kart which is only released on Switch 2.

Also, while I know that, in a way, Sega are "somewhat" at odds with Nintendo, do you think Sega could get an amiibo deal to have Sega All-Stars as amiibos? The thing about amiibos is that they're both collectible figurines, but with various purpose in games. I think "Sega Amiibos" would be a really good idea. That, or Sega release their own toys-to-life figures that can be used on PC.

In fact, other than Sega Superstars VR, my two ideas for Sega All-Stars games are:

• Sonic & Sega All-Stars Shuffle - A sequel of sorts to Sonic Shuffle, but the difference being you play as various Sega characters. Perhaps amiibos allow you to unlock various characters. It can still star Lumina as game master and have mini-games and boards based on various Sega IPs.
• Sega All-Stars Fighters Megamix - A sequel to Fighters Megamix, it can have three category of characters: "Rounders" who are average fighters such as the Virtua Fighters, "Agile" who are smaller, quicker fighters but lack endurance, such as Sonic the Fighters, and "Armoured" who are stronger than rounders, but lack endurance which they make up for in armour, such as the Fighting Vipers.

I can imagine Alex Kidd as an Agile-class fighter and Chariot from THotD as an Armoured-class fighter.

Perhaps also, it would be a good idea, if a Sega All-Star games also included the original games of the various characters (or at least a demo, depending on the filesize) that the heroes debute in. Especially given there are some fans sore over Sega taking down Sega Gen/MD Classics from Steam and all its games. For example if a Sega All-Star game had Ristar as a playable character, then perhaps the game Ristar itself is available to play? Something like that.

At least, those are my ideas/suggestions.

That's a good idea eventhough I don't think Nintendo would add more third party characters other than the ones that show up in SSB (since it's to promote their own game too). Their rarity as only Nintendo characters keeps demand consistently high.
Still I dig the idea to include the original games / demo of the characters they debute in. It's a good way to make old franchises known again. I even want they've could done this in CrossWorlds too. If Sonic Mania could do it (Mean Bean Machine/Puyo Puyo), then I don't see why CrossWorlds can't.

[Mystic Monkey]

The thing is right now that kind of party games only sold well on Switch since Switch is synonymous with party games where family and friends play together.
If we release them on other system, they won't sell as good as on Switch.
If we release them on Switch, they'll get shadowed over Mario Party and Mario Kart.
Even a game as good as Sonic CW which is released on many platform is unsuccesfully striving against Mario Kart which is only released on Switch 2.

What about Rumble? Isn't Rumble sorta-kinda like Mario Party, but less party and more gauntlets and minigames?

That's a good idea eventhough I don't think Nintendo would add more third party characters other than the ones that show up in SSB (since it's to promote their own game too). Their rarity as only Nintendo characters keeps demand consistently high.
Still I dig the idea to include the original games / demo of the characters they debute in. It's a good way to make old franchises known again. I even want they've could done this in CrossWorlds too. If Sonic Mania could do it (Mean Bean Machine/Puyo Puyo), then I don't see why CrossWorlds can't.

Hm... Sega could probably release their own Toy-to-life figures.

I remember when Skylanders had that promotion with Nintendo to release Bowser and Donkey Kong Skylander figurines that also doubled as amiibos.

Sega could consider releasing their own toys-to-life figurines, but would it be practical? And how would it work for Sega's multi-platform market?

Hm... I know these days, mobile phones (or smart phones?) can be used to pay for goods instead of a credit card. Smart phones can also scan credit cards (something you have to be careful of in cities like London where the modern street thief would try to get their phones close to your pockets or bags to scan your phone or cards), so maybe Sega could release an app for smart phones to be used as "toy pads" for their figurines? I don't know if chip scanners for PC can be sold separately though, or how much they are.


I think reviving the Sega All-Stars series would be more practical if Sega really wanted to return attention to their classic IPs. Such ideas as:

• Re-release of Sega Superstars for modern platforms. (PC requires webcams, PlayStation 5 has HD Camera, XBox Series X/S has either XBox One Kinect or standard webcams, Switch 2 have USB camera). Just a low-market re-release for around £10 or so. A cheap way to get people to remember Sega Superstars at all, but also a cheap way to remind them of the characters in the game as well. It still "something" after all.
• Given "Sonic Racing" is Sega's current "kart series", Sega All-Stars could perhaps be a franchise for other various spin-off genres. Like sports or maybe even a Party game. It can be Sega's "answer" to Nintendo's Mario spin-off games, but I don't know if making them "direct answers" would be a good idea. "Sonic & Sega All-Star Shuffle" might be a good idea. Yeah, Sonic Shuffle was an obvious answer to Mario Party 2 at the time, but it still had unique elements to it such as the use of cards over dice. Or, remove Party Games entirely and make just compilations of mini-games or such.
• If Sega All-Stars were to have a fighting game, I think making it a sequel to Fighters Megamix would be a good idea. While Fighters Megamix is lesser-known than Virtua Fighter or even Fighting Vipers, Fighters Megamix is still Sega's first Sega crossover fighting game and I'd rather they make a continuation of it over making up something brand-new, especially if it's going to be a late "answer" to Smash Bros. series. Fighters Megamix is also not a platform fighting game, but a 3D fighting game which would make it more unique to 2D fighting games like Mortal Kombat or Street Fighter and platform fighting games like Smash Bros.

I think, what made Sega Superstars unique was the fact the EyeToy allowed you to interact with the games more directly. However, the EyeToy meant the game required a peripheral to play. If Sega wanted their classic IPs to be remembered and marketable, they could release a "Sega Superstars 2". It may just need a standard controller to play... but perhaps the fact the first game used the EyeToy was what made it more unique? So Sega Superstars without a peripheral requirement may not make it stand-out as much against other compilation mini-games on the market.

But, Sega Superstars as a series that also include demos of original games for each mascot character, would be a must! Just as how SSBB and SSB4 had masterpieces.

I myself think particularly good ideas are:

• Toy-to-life figurines - If not amiibos, then maybe their own toys. Both for interactions with various Sega games and collectibles themselves.
• Sega All-Stars × Fighters Megamix - Fighters Megamix was the original crossover fighting game for Sega that predates Super Smash Bros. I don't want a brand-new Sega All-Stars fighting game when Fighters Megamix can still carry the torch. While RGG Studios are taking over the Virtua Fighter series with Crossroads, Sega AM2 could still use VF5 engine to make Sega All-Stars: Fighters Megamix with.
• Sega Superstars VR - This is more for the sake of the VR market itself than Sega, though would also like to see more Sega VR games. Though, the VR market has improved over the last decade or so. But, as far as I'm aware, VALVe are the only major video game company who are willing to make games for the VR market such as creating the Valve Index and games for it such as the Aperture games and Half-Life: Alyx. With the release of the Steam Frame somewhen soon, they may likely release new VR games for it. I think Sony has also taken a dip in the VR market with PlayStation VR. If "Sega Superstars VR" would be a PlayStation exclusive like the first Sega Superstars game was, then it could be a PSVR2 game.
• Promotional crossovers - Sonic Racing Crossworld and Sonic Rumble already have other Sega characters in them.
• Other "Origins" games - Sonic Origins pretty much reintroduced 1, 2, CD and 3&K to the modern audience, with the old games revamped for modern platforms. Perhaps Sega should do the exact same thing for their other classic IPs? For example, Lizardcube could perhaps be put in charge of "Shinobi Origins". They recreate Shinobi, Shinobi Dancer and Shinobi III: Return of the Ninja Master as a compilation. It could still keep it's original arcade style, but perhaps Art of Vengence style would also be available for these games. I wouldn't oppose LizardCube and Guard Crush working together on "Streets of Rage Origins" and "Golden Axe Origins" as well.

[Berto]

What about Rumble? Isn't Rumble sorta-kinda like Mario Party, but less party and more gauntlets and minigames?

Yes and sadly in the Q3 Financial Results, Sonic Rumble has been noted as a major disappointment for SEGA. The company cited the mobile title for weak performance, specifically pointing to poor customer acquisition and lower-than-expected user engagement.
The game wasn't even in the Top 10 SEGA mobile games in term of revenue.
Here's a comparison for the last 30 days revenue compared to some other SEGA mobile games on iOS :

Hm... Sega could probably release their own Toy-to-life figures.

I remember when Skylanders had that promotion with Nintendo to release Bowser and Donkey Kong Skylander figurines that also doubled as amiibos.

Sega could consider releasing their own toys-to-life figurines, but would it be practical? And how would it work for Sega's multi-platform market?

Hm... I know these days, mobile phones (or smart phones?) can be used to pay for goods instead of a credit card. Smart phones can also scan credit cards (something you have to be careful of in cities like London where the modern street thief would try to get their phones close to your pockets or bags to scan your phone or cards), so maybe Sega could release an app for smart phones to be used as "toy pads" for their figurines? I don't know if chip scanners for PC can be sold separately though, or how much they are.


I think reviving the Sega All-Stars series would be more practical if Sega really wanted to return attention to their classic IPs. Such ideas as:

• Re-release of Sega Superstars for modern platforms. (PC requires webcams, PlayStation 5 has HD Camera, XBox Series X/S has either XBox One Kinect or standard webcams, Switch 2 have USB camera). Just a low-market re-release for around £10 or so. A cheap way to get people to remember Sega Superstars at all, but also a cheap way to remind them of the characters in the game as well. It still "something" after all.
• Given "Sonic Racing" is Sega's current "kart series", Sega All-Stars could perhaps be a franchise for other various spin-off genres. Like sports or maybe even a Party game. It can be Sega's "answer" to Nintendo's Mario spin-off games, but I don't know if making them "direct answers" would be a good idea. "Sonic & Sega All-Star Shuffle" might be a good idea. Yeah, Sonic Shuffle was an obvious answer to Mario Party 2 at the time, but it still had unique elements to it such as the use of cards over dice. Or, remove Party Games entirely and make just compilations of mini-games or such.
• If Sega All-Stars were to have a fighting game, I think making it a sequel to Fighters Megamix would be a good idea. While Fighters Megamix is lesser-known than Virtua Fighter or even Fighting Vipers, Fighters Megamix is still Sega's first Sega crossover fighting game and I'd rather they make a continuation of it over making up something brand-new, especially if it's going to be a late "answer" to Smash Bros. series. Fighters Megamix is also not a platform fighting game, but a 3D fighting game which would make it more unique to 2D fighting games like Mortal Kombat or Street Fighter and platform fighting games like Smash Bros.

I think, what made Sega Superstars unique was the fact the EyeToy allowed you to interact with the games more directly. However, the EyeToy meant the game required a peripheral to play. If Sega wanted their classic IPs to be remembered and marketable, they could release a "Sega Superstars 2". It may just need a standard controller to play... but perhaps the fact the first game used the EyeToy was what made it more unique? So Sega Superstars without a peripheral requirement may not make it stand-out as much against other compilation mini-games on the market.

But, Sega Superstars as a series that also include demos of original games for each mascot character, would be a must! Just as how SSBB and SSB4 had masterpieces.

I myself think particularly good ideas are:

• Toy-to-life figurines - If not amiibos, then maybe their own toys. Both for interactions with various Sega games and collectibles themselves.
• Sega All-Stars × Fighters Megamix - Fighters Megamix was the original crossover fighting game for Sega that predates Super Smash Bros. I don't want a brand-new Sega All-Stars fighting game when Fighters Megamix can still carry the torch. While RGG Studios are taking over the Virtua Fighter series with Crossroads, Sega AM2 could still use VF5 engine to make Sega All-Stars: Fighters Megamix with.
• Sega Superstars VR - This is more for the sake of the VR market itself than Sega, though would also like to see more Sega VR games. Though, the VR market has improved over the last decade or so. But, as far as I'm aware, VALVe are the only major video game company who are willing to make games for the VR market such as creating the Valve Index and games for it such as the Aperture games and Half-Life: Alyx. With the release of the Steam Frame somewhen soon, they may likely release new VR games for it. I think Sony has also taken a dip in the VR market with PlayStation VR. If "Sega Superstars VR" would be a PlayStation exclusive like the first Sega Superstars game was, then it could be a PSVR2 game.
• Promotional crossovers - Sonic Racing Crossworld and Sonic Rumble already have other Sega characters in them.
• Other "Origins" games - Sonic Origins pretty much reintroduced 1, 2, CD and 3&K to the modern audience, with the old games revamped for modern platforms. Perhaps Sega should do the exact same thing for their other classic IPs? For example, Lizardcube could perhaps be put in charge of "Shinobi Origins". They recreate Shinobi, Shinobi Dancer and Shinobi III: Return of the Ninja Master as a compilation. It could still keep it's original arcade style, but perhaps Art of Vengence style would also be available for these games. I wouldn't oppose LizardCube and Guard Crush working together on "Streets of Rage Origins" and "Golden Axe Origins" as well.

Okay, I will try to give my opinion on this but using a business perspective so it's gonna sound harsh.

1. SEGA has already have a toy division and they're rather making Disney, Miku, and Marvel toys rather than SEGA characters (with the exception of Sonic). Why? Because SEGA-based characters don't sell much compared to Disney, Miku, and Marvel. They got more profit in licensing them to other manufacturer instead.
2. SEGA has a mobile app now for UFO Catcher which worked quite well, so I'm sure they could make app for smart phones to be used as "toy pads" for their toys but of course what the use if the toys don't sell enough.
3. A game with camera and kinect is a niche market so I don't think they're touching it right now and use their resources to focus on the mainline games instead.
4. SEGA already had a party game. It still couldn't beat Mario Party and I'm sure it still couldn't beat it even the characters were changed into SEGA All Stars. It's just make looks like Mario alone could beat SEGA All Stars if there's such a game which dragging down SEGA name. SEGA is careful with their brand name now.
5. VR market is still a niche, otherwise EA, Microsoft, Nintendo, and Sony would make a lot of games for them.
6. Unfortunately Sonic Rumble and CrossWorlds didn't meet SEGA's expectation even though both games were full of SEGA classic characters.
7. I can see Shinobi Origins could happen if Shinobi AOV was asuccess but sadly that wasn't the case.
8. Still I think there is a hope for Sega All-Stars × Fighters Megamix if Virtua Fighter Crossroads became a success, but probably RGG Studio is too busy with another Yakuza games to make one (unless higher ups at SEGA stepped in and told them to).

As personal preference, I do want SEGA made VR Space Harrier or SEGA Olympic Games with SEGA characters in it but from business perspective I understand why SEGA wouldn't even consider it right now.

[Mystic Monkey]

Yes and sadly in the Q3 Financial Results, Sonic Rumble has been noted as a major disappointment for SEGA. The company cited the mobile title for weak performance, specifically pointing to poor customer acquisition and lower-than-expected user engagement.
The game wasn't even in the Top 10 SEGA mobile games in term of revenue.
Here's a comparison for the last 30 days revenue compared to some other SEGA mobile games on iOS :

That sucks. One thing Mario has over Sonic is multiplayer engagement, such as sports, karts and party games. Sonic Rumble is one of Sonic's major multiplayer game and it's doing bad.

Okay, I will try to give my opinion on this but using a business perspective so it's gonna sound harsh.

1. SEGA has already have a toy division and they're rather making Disney, Miku, and Marvel toys rather than SEGA characters (with the exception of Sonic). Why? Because SEGA-based characters don't sell much compared to Disney, Miku, and Marvel. They got more profit in licensing them to other manufacturer instead.
2. SEGA has a mobile app now for UFO Catcher which worked quite well, so I'm sure they could make app for smart phones to be used as "toy pads" for their toys but of course what the use if the toys don't sell enough.
3. A game with camera and kinect is a niche market so I don't think they're touching it right now and use their resources to focus on the mainline games instead.
4. SEGA already had a party game. It still couldn't beat Mario Party and I'm sure it still couldn't beat it even the characters were changed into SEGA All Stars. It's just make looks like Mario alone could beat SEGA All Stars if there's such a game which dragging down SEGA name. SEGA is careful with their brand name now.
5. VR market is still a niche, otherwise EA, Microsoft, Nintendo, and Sony would make a lot of games for them.
6. Unfortunately Sonic Rumble and CrossWorlds didn't meet SEGA's expectation even though both games were full of SEGA classic characters.
7. I can see Shinobi Origins could happen if Shinobi AOV was asuccess but sadly that wasn't the case.
8. Still I think there is a hope for Sega All-Stars × Fighters Megamix if Virtua Fighter Crossroads became a success, but probably RGG Studio is too busy with another Yakuza games to make one (unless higher ups at SEGA stepped in and told them to).

As personal preference, I do want SEGA made VR Space Harrier or SEGA Olympic Games with SEGA characters in it but from business perspective I understand why SEGA wouldn't even consider it right now.

• Sega character toys don't sell because Sega aren't doing much or enough with the IPs for those toys. This is why Toy to Life figurines specifically so that these toys can have more value and uses. But if Sega sticks to "playing it safe" with Disney, Miku and Marvel, then they might as well grovel to Nintendo over a Sega All-Stars amiibo deal, or not bother at all.
• Or if they won't make toys for it at all. I'm reminded of Dinosaur King and MushiKing, while these arcade games did not leave Japan, they were still popular for having barcoded cards, so digital-interactive toys could still work.
• It is a niche market, I agree. I believe if Sega want to bring more attention to their classic IPs, a sequel to Sega Superstars is a way to go. On one hand, giving it a niche would likely strict it and be bad marketing, but the first Sega Superstars game was renown for being an EyeToy game, so a niche may work for it?
• Sonic Shuffle is both a Mario Party rip-off and poorly executed. I don't think I have what it takes to convince you or anyone it isn't as bad of a party board game as the whole fandom accepted as, for example, I thought the use of cards over dice-rolls was rather clever and original. It provides a layer of strategy that I don't think any Mario Party game has, where having the right number cards or risk taking an unknown card from an opponent may make or break a turn. Other than that, Sonic Shuffle was made 26 years a go and Mario Party has comes such a long way that if Sega were to decide to release a "Sonic Shuffle 2", whenever a direct sequel or part of Sega All-Stars, it would be vastly different from both the first game and current Mario Party games at this point. I mean, would you say "Sonic Racing: Crossworld" is a "rip-off" of Mario Kart World? After all, Sonic Racing is a cartoon-like racing game with pick-ups to throw at one another etc.
• VALVe and Sony made a few. But that's why I would like to see a "Sega Superstars VR" game so that it would be less of a niche. But I understand that it would still be too much of a niche for Sega to make a game over.
• But both games still have active market, Sega hasn't seem to pull the plug on them yet.
• There is still upcoming Streets of Rage, Golden Axe, Jet Set Radio and Crazy Taxi games.
• That's why get Sega AM2 do make it. They can reuse VF5 engine to make it.

Well, it seems to be that Sega pretty much shot their classic IPs in the foot at this point. If they want to renew audience interest in their classic IPs, then the Sega All-Star franchise would be the best way to do it. But it doesn't seem they are willing to take risks to make it happen.

When the "Sega Renaissance" started, they have given permission to various developers and producers to make their games because they didn't want to take the risk of making games with poor expectations. But when Lizardcube made a baller with Streets of Rage 4, they hired Lizardcube to make Shinobi: AoV, and now they are disappointed that the game hasn't met "their" expectations.

But it's not like Lizardcube are at fault here. They didn't make a bad game, it's just there are other ninja games on the market, and Shinobi hasn't had a fresh game before AoV in years. And why? Because Sega didn't want to risk it. But in not taking risk, there is no reward!

This is something I praised "Classic-era Sega" with. They took risks and, while not always, were rewarded with it.

Sega employee: "Sir, we released the Mega Drive to compete with the NES, but there is a problem... Nintendo will release the SNES in three years time, and it will have better specs than the Mega Drive. What should we do?"
Sega boss: "We effin' take 'em on! We're still a decent console. Is there anything the Mega Drive exceed at over the SNES?"
Sega employee: "Well, we have faster processing power to them, but everything else is just-"
Sega boss: "We'll call it BLAST PROCESSING!"

Sega of now:

Sega employee: "Sonic Racing Crossworld is very popular, fans even say it's better than Mario Kart World."
Sega boss: "But is it making as much money as Mario Kart World?"
Sega employee: "Well no, but only because Mario Kart World is $80 along with the $500 console exclusive on, but there are still lots of-"
Sega boss: "Crossworld has failed my expectations."
Sega employee: "We're still giving it a three year DLC marketing though."

In fact, I will predict that none of the "Power Surge" games will meet expectations for Sega. Not to say I'm predicting they will be terrible, just it seems Sega's standards are a bit too high strung.

Sega, if you're "playing it safe" and you're still disappointed in your sale numbers, then perhaps what you're currently doing is just not efficient enough any more. That and I feel you're not getting full feedback from the fans. Shinobi: AoV wasn't a great game, but it was still good for a Shinobi game. And if you made a "Shinobi Origins" then perhaps people would have more appreciation of the IP.

That's all I can think to recommend for Sega. More "Origin" games and more Sega All-Star games. But if they're not going to risk it like their predecessors, then might as well continue sitting on those IPs and doing nothing with them.

[Berto]

That sucks. One thing Mario has over Sonic is multiplayer engagement, such as sports, karts and party games.

Nintendo is the king of family friendly multiplayers. It's their major strength since Wii era.

Sonic Rumble is one of Sonic's major multiplayer game and it's doing bad.

1. Sega character toys don't sell because Sega aren't doing much or enough with the IPs for those toys. This is why Toy to Life figurines specifically so that these toys can have more value and uses. But if Sega sticks to "playing it safe" with Disney, Miku and Marvel, then they might as well grovel to Nintendo over a Sega All-Stars amiibo deal, or not bother at all.
2. Or if they won't make toys for it at all. I'm reminded of Dinosaur King and MushiKing, while these arcade games did not leave Japan, they were still popular for having barcoded cards, so digital-interactive toys could still work.

It's because arcade environment in Japan and the rest of the world are different.
Remember Purikura / Print Club sticker arcade machine?
It's the famous photo booth that made Atlus and SEGA a lot of money back then in Japan.
They are almost everywhere in Japan and in 1997 in Print Club went on to generate over $1 billion in sales for Atlus and Sega.
When it Atlus tried to bring it overseas, it failed badly and costs Atlus lots of money.

It is a niche market, I agree. I believe if Sega want to bring more attention to their classic IPs, a sequel to Sega Superstars is a way to go. On one hand, giving it a niche would likely strict it and be bad marketing, but the first Sega Superstars game was renown for being an EyeToy game, so a niche may work for it?

SEGA made it in hope "eyetoy" would be a successful thing that has continuous support in the future.
It was a success at first (especially in Europe), but when turned out the sales is slowing down and Sony didn't follow it up with another succesful successor, not they're not interested in making games for it again.
It's just a bet on business opportunities. SEGA also didn't have any interest to support PlayStation VR.

Sonic Shuffle is both a Mario Party rip-off and poorly executed. I don't think I have what it takes to convince you or anyone it isn't as bad of a party board game as the whole fandom accepted as, for example, I thought the use of cards over dice-rolls was rather clever and original. It provides a layer of strategy that I don't think any Mario Party game has, where having the right number cards or risk taking an unknown card from an opponent may make or break a turn. Other than that, Sonic Shuffle was made 26 years a go and Mario Party has comes such a long way that if Sega were to decide to release a "Sonic Shuffle 2", whenever a direct sequel or part of Sega All-Stars, it would be vastly different from both the first game and current Mario Party games at this point. I mean, would you say "Sonic Racing: Crossworld" is a "rip-off" of Mario Kart World? After all, Sonic Racing is a cartoon-like racing game with pick-ups to throw at one another etc.

When I said SEGA already had a party game, I wasn't talking about Sonic Shuffle. That was a long long time ago.
I was talking about Demon Slayer -Kimetsu no Yaiba- Sweep the Board!.
It's a good fun party game and using the most popular anime franchise helped its visibility.







It's released on multi platforms but can you guess which platform it sold most? Yes, Switch.
Switch is the place when gamers look for party family-friendly party games
Too bad it still couldn't beat Mario Party series on Switch and I'm sure it still couldn't beat it even if the characters were changed into SEGA All Stars.
Mario Party franchise is just too strong.

VALVe and Sony made a few. But that's why I would like to see a "Sega Superstars VR" game so that it would be less of a niche. But I understand that it would still be too much of a niche for Sega to make a game over.

May be someday in the future what's considered niche could become popular, who knows.

But both games still have active market, Sega hasn't seem to pull the plug on them yet.

For CrossWorlds because they're already securing many licensing partners. It would look bad for business if they pull the plug right now.
For Rumble, the number of downloads are still good and its number could be added to how succesful Sonic franchise in term of numbers.

There is still upcoming Streets of Rage, Golden Axe, Jet Set Radio and Crazy Taxi games.

Hopefully the will be successful, even if there's boycott campaign for Crazy Taxi.

That's why get Sega AM2 do make it. They can reuse VF5 engine to make it.

Virtua Fighter 5 REVO doesn't even use Virtua Fighter 5 engine. They use RGG engine when RGG Studio took over VF franchise.

Well, it seems to be that Sega pretty much shot their classic IPs in the foot at this point. If they want to renew audience interest in their classic IPs, then the Sega All-Star franchise would be the best way to do it. But it doesn't seem they are willing to take risks to make it happen.

When the "Sega Renaissance" started, they have given permission to various developers and producers to make their games because they didn't want to take the risk of making games with poor expectations. But when Lizardcube made a baller with Streets of Rage 4, they hired Lizardcube to make Shinobi: AoV, and now they are disappointed that the game hasn't met "their" expectations.

But it's not like Lizardcube are at fault here. They didn't make a bad game, it's just there are other ninja games on the market, and Shinobi hasn't had a fresh game before AoV in years. And why? Because Sega didn't want to risk it. But in not taking risk, there is no reward!

This is something I praised "Classic-era Sega" with. They took risks and, while not always, were rewarded with it.

Sega employee: "Sir, we released the Mega Drive to compete with the NES, but there is a problem... Nintendo will release the SNES in three years time, and it will have better specs than the Mega Drive. What should we do?"
Sega boss: "We effin' take 'em on! We're still a decent console. Is there anything the Mega Drive exceed at over the SNES?"
Sega employee: "Well, we have faster processing power to them, but everything else is just-"
Sega boss: "We'll call it BLAST PROCESSING!"

Sega of now:

Sega employee: "Sonic Racing Crossworld is very popular, fans even say it's better than Mario Kart World."
Sega boss: "But is it making as much money as Mario Kart World?"
Sega employee: "Well no, but only because Mario Kart World is $80 along with the $500 console exclusive on, but there are still lots of-"
Sega boss: "Crossworld has failed my expectations."
Sega employee: "We're still giving it a three year DLC marketing though."

In fact, I will predict that none of the "Power Surge" games will meet expectations for Sega. Not to say I'm predicting they will be terrible, just it seems Sega's standards are a bit too high strung.

Sega, if you're "playing it safe" and you're still disappointed in your sale numbers, then perhaps what you're currently doing is just not efficient enough any more. That and I feel you're not getting full feedback from the fans. Shinobi: AoV wasn't a great game, but it was still good for a Shinobi game. And if you made a "Shinobi Origins" then perhaps people would have more appreciation of the IP.

That's all I can think to recommend for Sega. More "Origin" games and more Sega All-Star games. But if they're not going to risk it like their predecessors, then might as well continue sitting on those IPs and doing nothing with them.

Even if others failed, I think there's one Power Surge game that will still meet expectation: VIRTUA FIGHTER CROSSROADS.
It's handled by RGG Studio and RGG Studio always delivered in term of sales number.

[Mystic Monkey]

Nintendo is the king of family friendly multiplayers. It's their major strength since Wii era.

It is, which is why I wish Sonic had that same multiplayer-energy Mario has. All me and my friend had for multiplayer growing up was SA2B.

It's because arcade environment in Japan and the rest of the world are different.
Remember Purikura / Print Club sticker arcade machine?
It's the famous photo booth that made Atlus and SEGA a lot of money back then in Japan.
They are almost everywhere in Japan and in 1997 in Print Club went on to generate over $1 billion in sales for Atlus and Sega.
When it Atlus tried to bring it overseas, it failed badly and costs Atlus lots of money.

It's why I find it hard to believe Dinosaur King or MushiKing being that famous. Are they still popular in Japan?

SEGA made it in hope "eyetoy" would be a successful thing that has continuous support in the future.
It was a success at first (especially in Europe), but when turned out the sales is slowing down and Sony didn't follow it up with another succesful successor, not they're not interested in making games for it again.
It's just a bet on business opportunities. SEGA also didn't have any interest to support PlayStation VR.

But Sega were risk takers back then and at times it paid off, and PlayStation did follow up with the PSEye, a more polished EyeToy, but Sega didn't release a Sega Superstars 2 for the PSEye. As for the PSVR, while still a niche market for PlayStation, it still had some decent games such as Resident Evil VII and... well, okay, that's the only game I know.

When I said SEGA already had a party game, I wasn't talking about Sonic Shuffle. That was a long long time ago.
I was talking about Demon Slayer -Kimetsu no Yaiba- Sweep the Board!.
It's a good fun party game and using the most popular anime franchise helped its visibility.







It's released on multi platforms but can you guess which platform it sold most? Yes, Switch.
Switch is the place when gamers look for party family-friendly party games
Too bad it still couldn't beat Mario Party series on Switch and I'm sure it still couldn't beat it even if the characters were changed into SEGA All Stars.
Mario Party franchise is just too strong.

Even if it is not as strong as Mario Party, or make as much sales as Mario Party, as long as it is still an enjoyed game with many purchase, then isn't that what matter? Or has Sega regarded Demon Slayer games a failure also?

May be someday in the future what's considered niche could become popular, who knows.

Perhaps. I would like to see a Sega Superstars VR because while I acknowledge won't be that great, will still be really good.

For CrossWorlds because they're already securing many licensing partners. It would look bad for business if they pull the plug right now.
For Rumble, the number of downloads are still good and its number could be added to how succesful Sonic franchise in term of numbers.

These games are still beloved. Even Rumble is a decent contender a Sonic multiplayer game.

Hopefully the will be successful, even if there's boycott campaign for Crazy Taxi.

Is it because they used AI images for reference?

Virtua Fighter 5 REVO doesn't even use Virtua Fighter 5 engine. They use RGG engine when RGG Studio took over VF franchise.

You're right,  I keep forgetting "engine" doesn't just mean gameplay and physics... but you get what I mean, right?

Even if others failed, I think there's one Power Surge game that will still meet expectation: VIRTUA FIGHTER CROSSROADS.
It's handled by RGG Studio and RGG Studio always delivered in term of sales number.

Crossroads wasn't showcased with the Power Surge advert though. Just Shinobi: AoV, Crazy Taxi World Tour, Jet Set Radio, streets of Rage and Golden Axe.

But yes, RGG is pretty much Sega's ace card of a studio. Like A Dragon is pretty much AAA game.

[Berto]

It is, which is why I wish Sonic had that same multiplayer-energy Mario has. All me and my friend had for multiplayer growing up was SA2B.

Yeah, I wish for that too but it's still a long road to be passed.

It's why I find it hard to believe Dinosaur King or MushiKing being that famous. Are they still popular in Japan?

Not as popular as back then but the franchise is still alive.

But Sega were risk takers back then and at times it paid off, and PlayStation did follow up with the PSEye, a more polished EyeToy, but Sega didn't release a Sega Superstars 2 for the PSEye. As for the PSVR, while still a niche market for PlayStation, it still had some decent games such as Resident Evil VII and... well, okay, that's the only game I know.

Sometimes it paid off, sometimes it didn't. SEGA's full support on Wii was paid off too, but sadly not on WiiU.

Even if it is not as strong as Mario Party, or make as much sales as Mario Party, as long as it is still an enjoyed game with many purchase, then isn't that what matter? Or has Sega regarded Demon Slayer games a failure also?

That's hard to know since SEGA didn't released their sales number for games that was based on anime (Demon Slayer, Gintama, Fist of the North Star, Alice Gear Aegis CS: Concerto of Simulatrix, etc).
May be they only showed the report to the anime franchise owner.
But all I know that the Demon Slayer fighting game is a success since it got a sequel. If the Demon Slayer party game got a sequel then we can surely sure that it's a success too.

Is it because they used AI images for reference?

Sadly yes. The sad thing is the loudest ones on this case are from our generation, the main target market of SEGA classic franchise.
Younger people seems didn't hate AI as much but they could stay away from the fandom and the game if this debate's always going on.
And if classic franchise's failed to attract new fans then it's Shinobi AOV case all over again.

You're right,  I keep forgetting "engine" doesn't just mean gameplay and physics... but you get what I mean, right?

Yes, I would want one too if it's possible.

Crossroads wasn't showcased with the Power Surge advert though. Just Shinobi: AoV, Crazy Taxi World Tour, Jet Set Radio, streets of Rage and Golden Axe.

Damn, you're right. I kept forgeting that since SEGA put them as one in their quarterly report.

But yes, RGG is pretty much Sega's ace card of a studio. Like A Dragon is pretty much AAA game.

RGG Studio do have one game that wasn't performed well recently though, Super Monkey Ball Banana Rumble.
But it's their fault for changing the characters's design.
Fans didn't mind seeing Aiai being pantless or Meimei being topless but I guess someone in higher-ups forced RGG Studio to make them wear full clothes now and took away the beloved old design.

[Mystic Monkey]

Yeah, I wish for that too but it's still a long road to be passed.

If even possible at all, though, given multiplatform, it seems it should be obvious, but it isn't.

Not as popular as back then but the franchise is still alive.

Maybe because I'm on another island nation across the world, just find it hard to believe.

Sometimes it paid off, sometimes it didn't. SEGA's full support on Wii was paid off too, but sadly not on WiiU.

Nintendo soured their relations with Sega.

Sadly yes. The sad thing is the loudest ones on this case are from our generation, the main target market of SEGA classic franchise.
Younger people seems didn't hate AI as much but they could stay away from the fandom and the game if this debate's always going on.
And if classic franchise's failed to attract new fans then it's Shinobi AOV case all over again.

How can Sega recover for it? ... Other than re-releasing Crazy Taxi on Steam, which we know they won't do.

Yes, I would want one too if it's possible.

Even though V5 is a bit dated now compared to Crossroads, they can still recycle it for a Fighters Megamix game.

Damn, you're right. I kept forgeting that since SEGA put them as one in their quarterly report.

Even if it isn't one of the Power Surge promoted games, I have a feeling it would still carry Sega.

But the way you describe the curent situation, what would you say is best way for Sega to get fresh blood for their classic IPs? Because it sounds like they won't take risks for it.

RGG Studio do have one game that wasn't performed well recently though, Super Monkey Ball Banana Rumble.
But it's their fault for changing the characters's design.
Fans didn't mind seeing Aiai being pantless or Meimei being topless but I guess someone in higher-ups forced RGG Studio to make them wear full clothes now and took away the beloved old design.

But if it's just as good of a game, why make a fuss over it? I mean, why hasn't their been fuss over the alterations they made around Rouge?

[Berto]

Maybe because I'm on another island nation across the world, just find it hard to believe.

Just like me couldn't believe how Project Mirai could beat Rhythm Thief.
Project Mirai has only one gameplay while Rhythm Thief has various gameplay, even taking nod from Samba de amigo, Project Rub / Geel the Magic XY/XX, and Space Channel 5.
But it's really not us to get to decide what popular or not.

Nintendo soured their relations with Sega.

To be fair, Nintendo also didn't expect WiiU to be a failure after Wii topped the gaming world.

How can Sega recover for it? ... Other than re-releasing Crazy Taxi on Steam, which we know they won't do.

By focusing to make the game good and adressing elephant on the room. They explained very well that everything in the final game is made by human creators and AI was used to replicate, generate, or reference any performers or voice actors in the game.
It won't satisfy everyone but I'm sure some of them will ignore it if the game itself is good.
And I think SEGA handled this better compared how Sony faces backlash after they announce that they will discontinue the production of physical game discs for all new PlayStation games starting in January 2028. .
They just keep silent about it and now everything they posted in the internet got roasted alive by fans who're still mad about it.

Even though V5 is a bit dated now compared to Crossroads, they can still recycle it for a Fighters Megamix game.

The team is already busy with another games.

But the way you describe the curent situation, what would you say is best way for Sega to get fresh blood for their classic IPs? Because it sounds like they won't take risks for it.

I hate to say it but I think the game has to be radically different by gameplay  but still kept the atmosphere of the original game.
Like you know how different Sonic Adventure to Sonic 3&K, or Phantasy Star Online to Phantasy Star IV, Racing Transformed to All-Star Racing, or like it or not ... Frontiers to Forces.
Keeping the old gameplay may keep the old fans happy but it's hard to attract new fans by doing that.

But if it's just as good of a game, why make a fuss over it? I mean, why hasn't their been fuss over the alterations they made around Rouge?

Rouge is just a background character, you won't her see much in the game.
Also actually there's other thing that made Monkey Rumble got attacked.
The game was exclusively released only on Switch so fans from other platform love to attack it using any reason just for the sake of it.

[Mystic Monkey]

Just like me couldn't believe how Project Mirai could beat Rhythm Thief.
Project Mirai has only one gameplay while Rhythm Thief has various gameplay, even taking nod from Samba de amigo, Project Rub / Geel the Magic XY/XX, and Space Channel 5.
But it's really not us to get to decide what popular or not.

True. It's like memes, both hivemind agreement yet no real reason. Like 6-7.

To be fair, Nintendo also didn't expect WiiU to be a failure after Wii topped the gaming world.

True but... they could've helped Sega with Rise of Lyric at the time. But as far as I'm aware, they didn't.

By focusing to make the game good and adressing elephant on the room. They explained very well that everything in the final game is made by human creators and AI was used to replicate, generate, or reference any performers or voice actors in the game.
It won't satisfy everyone but I'm sure some of them will ignore it if the game itself is good.
And I think SEGA handled this better compared how Sony faces backlash after they announce that they will discontinue the production of physical game discs for all new PlayStation games starting in January 2028. .
They just keep silent about it and now everything they posted in the internet got roasted alive by fans who're still mad about it.

Jeeze, and I thought XBox was struggling. But, while I don't believe Crazy Taxi World Tour will satisfy Sega (who have their nose to Metacritic), I still believe it will be a great game.

The team is already busy with another games.
 

True, not like any Sega All-Star game is in the works.

I hate to say it but I think the game has to be radically different by gameplay  but still kept the atmosphere of the original game.
Like you know how different Sonic Adventure to Sonic 3&K, or Phantasy Star Online to Phantasy Star IV, Racing Transformed to All-Star Racing, or like it or not ... Frontiers to Forces.
Keeping the old gameplay may keep the old fans happy but it's hard to attract new fans by doing that.

But that, in itself, is a risk. Golden Axe: Beast Riders was an attempt at just that, and it practically ended the franchise... at the time. Same can be said for Shinobi for the PS2 now that I think about it. I agree with you that they need to be innovative and new with the old franchises, but that would take risks, and Sega doesn't seem the sort for that.
 

Rouge is just a background character, you won't her see much in the game.
Also actually there's other thing that made Monkey Rumble got attacked.

The game was exclusively released only on Switch so fans from other platform love to attack it using any reason just for the sake of it.
Making it a console exclusive does validate the hate I guess.

[Berto]

True. It's like memes, both hivemind agreement yet no real reason. Like 6-7.

True but... they could've helped Sega with Rise of Lyric at the time. But as far as I'm aware, they didn't.

They couldn't help if SEGA didn't ask them to and SEGA was too proud of themselves to do that at that time, releasing Rise of Lyric even though the game wasn't ready (and this wasn't the first time they did that ... Sonic 06 was more cahotic).

Jeeze, and I thought XBox was struggling. But, while I don't believe Crazy Taxi World Tour will satisfy Sega (who have their nose to Metacritic), I still believe it will be a great game.

I think Crazy Taxi World Tour's having open world mode is a proof that SEGA listened to the fans.

But that, in itself, is a risk. Golden Axe: Beast Riders was an attempt at just that, and it practically ended the franchise... at the time. Same can be said for Shinobi for the PS2 now that I think about it. I agree with you that they need to be innovative and new with the old franchises, but that would take risks, and Sega doesn't seem the sort for that.

Yes, that's a risk so for this kind of things I would hope that the games were developed by SEGA of Japan's internal studio.
Golden Axe Beast Rider wasn't developed by SEGA of Japan's internal team, they're being developed by SEGA of America's Secret Level team.
Shinobi PS2 was developed by Sega's internal development studio, Overworks (formerly known as AM7).
Despite the harsh reviews for being a difficult game, Shinobi for the PS2 was actually a commercial success.
The sequel, Kunoichi / Nightshade, sadly wasn't. I don't know why. May be they should stick the title with Shinobi 2 instead of changing it.

Making it a console exclusive does validate the hate I guess.

Kinda like Nintendo fans attacking Sonic Adventure 1-2 on Dreamcast but then they're welcoming the games when they came to Game Cube.

[Berto]

Rowdy Shinobi Shinobu Comic by きくちゆうき - Lil' Shingo





Source: https://x.com/SEGA/status/2051189898477023335

[Berto]

Rowdy Shinobi Shinobu Comic by きくちゆうき - Let's Roll!





Source: https://x.com/SEGA/status/2051189898477023335