Terrible Polygon Article (I shouldnt be shocked)

[Betwixt Thieves]

I hate to even post this link here and drive traffic to a poorly written piece.
https://www.polygon.com/2017/8/22/16179048/nintendo-vs-sega-the-battle-over-being-cool

For those of you who have read it what are your thoughts?

The journalist (It hurt to write that word) doesn't seem to fully understand the two companies he is writing about. They also seem to only have a perspective of what transpired in the American divisions of the companies.

[Tad]

It's a weird one. There's definitely the issue of only looking at it from the american side, but parts of it are accurate. I don't think Nintendo was looking to be "timeless" as he described, but Nintendo and Sega were trying to make great games with different approaches.

Sega were willing to try fresh ideas, mechanics etc, while Nintendo were trying to just build from what had already been achieved. As a result, I think Sega's misses brought them down, while Nintendo stayed on a steady but familiar path and are still on it to this day. Now, that's great for Nintendo, but I do think as a result they've become very stale and scared to deviate or create something totally different.

Sega's approach had lead to some great games too and even the games that don't quite hit the ground have had some great ideas in it. However, the scatter gun approach can be a right pain if you're a fan of a series and wanting some consistency.

So in the end, I think the split between the two is easy to see and why, but the reality is, both companies could learn a lot from each other.

[Betwixt Thieves]

I would almost argue that Sega has always been ahead of the time instead of trying to mimic the culture around them and be "cool" as the article claims. Now that approach has not worked for them in the long term. Their company culture was impulsive and explosive which has led to a multitude of results.

-online features and services (even back on the Genesis) (e-mail, web browsing)
- peripherals to enhance consoles (tv tuner for Game Gear, VMU)
-backwards compatibility in the early years
- CD gaming and music


Nintendo on the other hand has stuck to their tradition even when failing. Their company culture is inventive yet reserved. They are more likely to develop a new way to experience games instead of developing a new software concept. For example they create the Wii to experience games with gestures, but the software is the same style of games. Or they make a system that acts as a portable and stationary system while enjoying similar software. Splatoon is a third person shooter wrapped in a new experience.
-local gameplay only mantra until recently
-network interface is archaic compared to competitors
- rarely branch out with new IPs (just recently changing)

[Tad]

Nintendo's recent changes aren't really anything outside their comfort zone or their format. All bright colours, all basic mechanics, all light and fluffy. Even Metroid has this.

Where's the deep story games, adventure games, tactical, puzzle, action/adventure etc?

Sega have branched out and tried a lot of different things and yes, it's not all been great, but at least the effort was there.

[Asha]

Nintendo's recent changes aren't really anything outside their comfort zone or their format. All bright colours, all basic mechanics, all light and fluffy. Even Metroid has this.

Where's the deep story games, adventure games, tactical, puzzle, action/adventure etc?

Sega have branched out and tried a lot of different things and yes, it's not all been great, but at least the effort was there.

While I strongly disagree with the article as well, in my opinon, this is a big misconception about Nintendo.


They made and published a lot of varied games but, like Sega, their heavy hitters - Mario, Zelda, etc. and now Splatoon plus Fire Emblem - are always the main focus (Well, it's a company. It needs money...). Also, sadly, Nintendo is annoyingly careful with localizations and many franchises never saw the western market or had their games denied. Just look at the people clamouring for an official release of Mother 3 here.

[Tad]

Can you name the games from Nintendo that deviate from that format then?

From what I can see, 90% of their output hits the criteria I spoke of. In terms of tech, they tend to put image quality behind performance to at least hit 60FPS in most cases - the Switch seems to be more 50/50 for this at the moment, but it's early. I can respect and agree with this mind.

Nintendo like to focus on gameplay I hear people cry. Okay, again, fair enough, but people do realise games have moved on from just that right? They've managed to implement new gameplay styles or a new twist to already well established mechanics with great characters and stories that tell dark, light, personal, heroic, intelligent or tragic tales. Not just through cutscenes either, but through it's gameplay, setting, world law, collectables and so on.

They weave all this through everything that makes a game and of course a game that doesn't do this is fine, but in my opinion, Nintendo get away with just doing this far too often. The only games that even come close to this is Metroid Prime and although they follow a standard path, Zelda. That's about it.

The stories might not be good in a lot of Sonic games, but at least they put some effort to build a world and a connection with it's characters. Meanwhile, brower has took Peach and Mario has to save her for the billionth time by jumping on random shaped blocks or pipes.

[Asha]

If I understood correctly, you want games with deep stories, character interactions and cutscenes right? Well, I know:

-The Famicom Tantei Club games (only the SNES remake of part II is translated, though)
-Trace Memory / Another Code
-Hotel Dusk: Room 215 and Last Window: The Secret of Cape West
-Zangeki no Reginleiv (japanese Wii exclusive)
-The Fire Emblem games
-Mother 3
-The Xenoblade games

Nintendo released a lot of text-adventure games in Japan for NES and SNES but Famicom Tantei is the better one imo.

Edit: Forgot this one too: ASH: Archaic Sealed Heat.

[Tad]

You've sort of half understood me. As I said before, everything is light and fluffy with them and the lack variation hurts them I think. Also, that list isn't exactly great is it.

A few games from the 80s, three from a third party publisher, games not released here and two anime type story games. Hardly anything to shout about.

Where's the collect-a-thorns, where's the adventure games, where's the shooters, racing, horror, anything outside their comfort zone games that isn't light an fluffy?

[Asha]

I would add the Wave Race and 1080° games in the racing category. They are arcade-style sport games and I never saw anything fluffy about them. Sin & Punishment, an on-rails shooter, isn't childish either but doesn't have a lot of story.

The Wars series is not grimdark or anything but I just remembered that Advance Wars - Days of Ruin is the most serious game of that franchise. Even the art style is different.

And as I said before, these games were made or published by Nintendo. Personally, I don't think that "anime type story" and "games not released here" are an excuse for ignore these titles. Released here, old or not, they are still their games. Obscure, sure, but still games.

Valkyria Chronicles, Shining Force, Skies of Arcadia, Phantasy Star and the Persona/SMT games made by Atlus have the "anime type story" and still manage to have serious moments like Fire Emblem or ASH. I don't understand your point here.

[Tad]

My point is as the same as I originally said, Nintendo haven't really changed. They're still making the same games as they always have and although they're good, they lack variety. I don't agree with the anime or not released here excuse. If it's not in english or available here, then they chose not to share it with us. Anime games etc can have a good story, but it's rare you find them that don't fall into the "it's magic" ending. Hotel Dusk, TLW and a few others have had good story, but not that many considering the amount out there.

[Asha]

I guess we will have to agree to disagree, then.


By the way:
"A trilogy that started as a dragon-riding rail shooter and ended as a dense JRPG ([/size]Panzer Dragoon[/size])"
[/size]Looks like someone forgot to search Panzer Dragoon Orta on Google.

[Tad]

Let me put it to you this way, say you're a PR from Nintendo and I'm interested in buying one of your products but I'm still on the fence. So I ask you this:

I like Deadly Premontion, Murder Soul Suspect, Shenmue, Broken Sword, Life is Strange, Telltale games, kings quest (new one), Until Dawn, Bioshock 1 & 2...does Nintendo have games like this?

[Asha]

I only played Shenmue, Bioshock and one Telltale Game (Sam & Max) so Google had to help me a bit with the other titles.


Eternal Darkness and Geist are the most similar to what you want. Nintendo published these games in the past and owns them.

[Shun-Di]

Sega had Bayonetta.  Nintendo only borrowed it.  :p

[Tad]

I only played Shenmue, Bioshock and one Telltale Game (Sam & Max) so Google had to help me a bit with the other titles.


Eternal Darkness and Geist are the most similar to what you want. Nintendo published these games in the past and owns them.

So, in all the years they've been going, only two titles?

Now do you see what I mean? This isn't the only gaps in Nintendo's line up either. There's loads.