SEGA hit by 73 people layoff, more focus on digital games

[Team Andromeda]

Uh, that is exactly my point? Call it mainstream or casual, it's mass audience. It sold out because it had to go where it could find profits. . . the market shifted on them

Mainstream, You couldn't get more mainstream than the Mega Drive console. Fact facts, the DC was meant to appeal to the casual gamers, that's why the Pad only had 4 face buttons. 6 buttons was too Diehard for the casual gamers .

Jet Grind got screwed cuz it was overshadowed by the fuckin PS2 launch. Xbox launching the Halo generation screwed Orta, Future, and Shenmue II into obscurity and market irrelevancy. This is reality that all the Sega fans on message boards observed and lamented 10 years ago.

 The DC just didn't perform well in Japan at the start, very early in,  the sales were poor and software sales very poor. FSP were on the Saturn and PS you know, Quake, Duke, Doom were seen as big deals. Panzer Dragoon never helped SEGA fortunes in the West on its own systems, it was nothing to do with HALO at all :roll: . Shenmue II was a flop in Japan on the DC mate, not the best seller in Europe on the DC.

Why did Sonic Unleashed have werehog? Cuz the fuckin marketing department put it there. That's mainstream marketing of games, that's not a design choice

Becasue SONIC Team are trying to boost the game length, and its next to impossible to make a Sonic 3D with  enough Huge levels, that Sonic can race through with-in min's, and have a game with 8 to 10 hrs of Playtime, remember that on adverage Sonic levels need to be 16 times the size of a Mario map to Compensate for the speed of Sonic (well if you believe Sonic Team) .
Sonic 1 was from the very start knocked for being too easy and too short , when is why even in the Mega Drive days , each sequel brought in new characters , extra modes , to try and compensate for the game length.  Sonic Unleashed main troubles wasn't the Werehog stages, it was just a lack of polish, and piss poor Hub system imo .

It's not funny because it is only logical since they have more profits to take risks and commercial successful titles to offset the less successful one

EA been loosing money , but its Board has taken a Big Stand and risk and betting on quality and brand new IP turning the company fortunes Sticking with games and giving them another chance.

Bad Company wasn't quite the main deal, but EA  stuck with it and the tech and made the Impressive sequel. Mirror's Edge and Dead Space didn't quite set the world alight , but EA is committed to sequels, and giving them 1 more chance to get established.

I so wished SEGA did the same with Val, give it was more chance, improve the Canvas Tech, and roll out a Multi Platform sequel hoping it would get established. Nope SEGA cut and run and produced a PSP version, which hasn't helped the game sell any better.


BTW, I think Mirrors Edge sold a million copies, more than Yakuza 3 or 4

Hardcore gaming is a fad. It was manufactured by big corporations to sell T-Shirts with controllers on them.

I like to know what makes a game or console hardcore . Is the 360 Hardcore, because its got plenty of CAVE shooters on it ?, Is the Wii Hardcore because its got Sin and Pun II or Madworld on it ?.  Was the Mega Drive a Hardcore console ?, how can it be, when you've got Mickey Mouse , and Disney games on it


Hardcore is a bit of myth, and where some gamers love to make out they're so Hardcore, just to make them feel big.

[Team Andromeda]

Brutal Legend is more Niche and hardcore than all the Yakuza games.

Discuss.

I think both are just games for the more serious gamer. To me there’s 2 different styles of gamers .
You have one set of gamers that make up your casuals gamers.. The ones that buy  just a few games a year, and only play games for a couple of hours a month . Then you get the more serious, the  dedicated gamer... The type that buys a few games a month , that plays games for more than a couple of hours a week.

[MadeManG74]

I like to know what makes a game or console hardcore

Easy, if the innermost center of a Console is highly resistant to force or pressure then it is 'Hard-Core'. If the center of a console is malleable, or otherwise reacts easily to outside pressures and forces it is only 'Soft-core'.

[Team Andromeda]

I like to know what makes a game or console hardcore

Easy, if the innermost center of a Console is highly resistant to force or pressure then it is 'Hard-Core'. If the center of a console is malleable, or otherwise reacts easily to outside pressures and forces it is only 'Soft-core'.

Good , and what makes someone a Hardcore gamer ?

[MadeManG74]

I like to know what makes a game or console hardcore

Easy, if the innermost center of a Console is highly resistant to force or pressure then it is 'Hard-Core'. If the center of a console is malleable, or otherwise reacts easily to outside pressures and forces it is only 'Soft-core'.

Good , and what makes someone a Hardcore gamer ?

If the innermost center of a gamer is highly resistant to force or pressure then it is 'Hard-Core'. If the center of a gamer is malleable, or otherwise reacts easily to outside pressures and forces it is only 'Soft-core'.

As an example, lets say we have Gamer A and Gamer B.

Gamer A has a center made of Cast-Iron, and Gamer B has a center made out of Tapioca Pudding. Gamer A would be classed as a "Hard-Core Gamer" and Gamer B would be "Soft-Core".

Hope that helps!

[Sega Uranus]

Sorry to break it to you all, but there is no such thing as "Hardcore" games. People can react to games how they wish.

I spend pretty much all of my life devoted to SEGA related stuff and the videogame industry in general, I feel this makes me reach the 'Hardcore' criteria. Well what if I told everyone my absolute favorite game from 2009 was Plants vs Zombies? I must totally be a stupid casual faggot now because I am ruining the industry or someshit, right?

The market is always changing, but the demand for 'Casual' games has always been the highest. In the early 90s SEGA made a shitload of Disney themed platformers, and most of them were incredible, some may even say masterpieces. These were made because people know and love characters like Donald Duck, so it is easy to market a game about someone like him. It made money and helped bring in fans who would also pick up titles like Sonic the Hedgehog and Golden Axe, so it all worked out for the best.

I just do not know what Eastside is going on about. Just because there are not more Rez games (which - Let's be honest, is best kept as a solo release, like NiGHTS should have been) does not mean SEGA does not care or that the industry or creativity as a whole is dying. Oh wait, Rez HD is one of the best selling games of all time on the Xbox Live Arcade, I guess your whole point blew up in your face just now.

I like to know what makes a game or console hardcore

Easy, if the innermost center of a Console is highly resistant to force or pressure then it is 'Hard-Core'. If the center of a console is malleable, or otherwise reacts easily to outside pressures and forces it is only 'Soft-core'.

Good , and what makes someone a Hardcore gamer ?

What to be a Hardcore gamer , one needs to play their Mega Drive in the nude , with a fully errect Penis. Oh man those were the HardCore days  :roll:

[Team Andromeda]

What to be a Hardcore gamer , one needs to play their Mega Drive in the nude , with a fully errect Penis. Oh man those were the HardCore days

So let me get this straight (pardon the Pun). A hardcore gamer is one that plays gamers with no underwear ,while being Sexually aroused  . A softcore game is one that plays games in their Underwear, not sexually aroused .

. . Oh wait, Rez HD is one of the best selling games of all time on the Xbox Live Arcade, I guess your whole point blew up in your face just now.

Oh wait, Does that make 360 gamers Hardcore, ? does it show there is in fact market for REZ ?. Making another Levels for a REZ II, would be a easier update and  make a sequel to me,  than with  NiGHTS.

These were made because people know and love characters like Donald Duck, so it is easy to market a game about someone like him. It made money and helped bring in fans who would also pick up titles like Sonic the Hedgehog and Golden Axe, so it all worked out for the best.

Yeah casual and mainstream gamer . The only reason the Saturn or DC are seen as hardcore, is because they were poor sellers, and failed to the get the Mainstream gamer. The PS2 is one of the best selling consoles ever, yet there plenty of Artful and what so could call hardcore games on that system, same for the PS and Mega Drive.

I spend pretty much all of my life devoted to SEGA related stuff and the videogame industry in general, I feel this makes me reach the 'Hardcore' criteria.

So many people could say they've backed SEGA most of their life. That doesn't make you hardcore, just a loyal fan imo. I know some that make out because they Import games, they're hardcore . Look at me man, I paid over £600 for a Import Saturn, I'm such a SEGA nut and Hardcore fan .

I imported my SEGA Saturn, simply because I enjoyed SEGA games and Hardware, and couldn't wait for the Pal dates .

Well what if I told everyone my absolute favorite game from 2009 was Plants vs Zombies?

Well mine was Ninja Blade. I think everyone will have their own GOTY

[Sega Uranus]

TA, I was defending you in my whole post you know?

I do not think the amount of money one spends on games means they are a bigger fan than the last. In our case, I literally cannot spend as much as you would be able to for their products like you mentioned you had, so I do not think it is a fair comparison.

[George]

Martin The Fat Ninja was let go.

: (

[Barry the Nomad]

We should snap him up before the Kartel gets him!

[Sega Stylista]

More bullshit. Stop making up crap and assuming because you do not like something it must be because "The market forced it!". Sonic Team said they made the werehog because they liked the idea, the director was a big fan of games like God of War. SEGA America and Europe literally begged them to change it, but they refused, and look what happened!

Becasue SONIC Team are trying to boost the game length, and its next to impossible to make a Sonic 3D with  enough Huge levels, that Sonic can race through with-in min's, and have a game with 8 to 10 hrs of Playtime, remember that on adverage Sonic levels need to be 16 times the size of a Mario map to Compensate for the speed of Sonic (well if you believe Sonic Team) .
Sonic 1 was from the very start knocked for being too easy and too short , when is why even in the Mega Drive days , each sequel brought in new characters , extra modes , to try and compensate for the game length.  Sonic Unleashed main troubles wasn't the Werehog stages, it was just a lack of polish, and piss poor Hub system imo .

http://www.ripten.com/2008/07/19/e3-08- ... e-screens/

I asked SEGA what they thought of the reaction from both hardcore gamers and those new to Sonic. Sega said that they focus group tested the two game play versions with kids and received an overwhelmingly positive response. They also understood that the nighttime game play was a change from the traditional “pure speed” Genesis Sonic, but were hoping that hardcore fans would keep an open mind and give the new night time game play a chance before dismissing it.

There you go. . . werehog was a result of focus group testing on kids.  That is called marketing making game design choices.  It doesn't get more obvious than that. Face the facts.

Also, all the adolescent jibes aside, there is a difference between a hardcore gamer and a core mainstream gamer.  Those are real marketing terms educate  and get informed.

A game can be hardcore and still have mainstream appeal like in the case of Street Fighter. Super Mario Bros started as a hardcore game, if you don't believe it play SMB2 Famicom version and tell me that was for casuals or mainstreams.  There is a difference between a mainstream hardcore game and a hardcore core mainstream game. . . MGS vs Halo.

Sega got screwed when gaming shifted from being hardcore centric to core mainstream centric.  Sega never learned to make games that appealed to core mainstreams, that is why they are screwed now.  The management doesn't want to risk the $30 to $40 million on a new franchise for core mainstreams that might not pan out.

I like to know what makes a game or console hardcore .

What designates a console hardcore, core mainstream, or casual is the intended target audience of the marketing focus and corresponding development focus.  Of course Wii is a casual console.  How the fuck would having a small percentage of its library being hardcore games designate it anything else but casual.  If the majority of the focus is on casual then it is a casual console.  Mega Drive like NES before it was a console that won great mainstream appeal yet the game design choices were in the hands of the game designers and not the marketing departments designating them gamer's machines rather than mainstreamers.

The DC just didn't perform well in Japan at the start, very early in,  the sales were poor and software sales very poor. FSP were on the Saturn and PS you know, Quake, Duke, Doom were seen as big deals. Panzer Dragoon never helped SEGA fortunes in the West on its own systems, it was nothing to do with HALO at all :roll: . Shenmue II was a flop in Japan on the DC mate, not the best seller in Europe on the DC.

The DC didn't perform well in Japan because it was completely overshadowed by PS2 hype.  PS1 had won Japan over in the previous generation. . .Japan was Playstation country.  Quake, Duke, Doom back in their early days were selling to hardcore gaming audiences FPS didn't expand their demographics until later generations.  I'm talking about Orta specifically, it like other Sega efforts were lost when Xbox got equated with Halo defining the audience for it.  I don't get the Shenmue II comment?  Yeah. . . like I said the market had shifted, that fits with what I'm telling you.

I so wished SEGA did the same with Val, give it was more chance, improve the Canvas Tech, and roll out a Multi Platform sequel hoping it would get established. Nope SEGA cut and run and produced a PSP version, which hasn't helped the game sell any better.

It didn't make the sales to justify that.  That's why it went to PSP.  In the West it was too niche and hardcore. . . just what I'm telling you.

I just do not know what Eastside is going on about. Just because there are not more Rez games (which - Let's be honest, is best kept as a solo release, like NiGHTS should have been) does not mean SEGA does not care or that the industry or creativity as a whole is dying. Oh wait, Rez HD is one of the best selling games of all time on the Xbox Live Arcade, I guess your whole point blew up in your face just now.

I've already gone over my thesis tirrelessly; that the game market shifted screwing Sega with PS2 and Xbox generation and Sega management isn't going to take the financial risk to bring out sequels or new IP's of anything traditionally artsy, out of the norm, or quirky trademark Sega.  The management will approve crap that can sell to casual and mainstream audiences because that is where the profits are and then us hardcore fans that what old school Sonic, Skies, Shenmue II, Jet, etc, etc get fucked.  So, fuck you, modern game audiences!

[Barry the Nomad]

I had assumed 'Shenmue IIx' failed because the Dreamcast already had it in JP and PAL regions, and most dedicated US fans imported the PAL version. By the time 'Shenmue IIx' released, it was old news and most fans only picked it up when it dropped in price.

[crackdude]

Sega got screwed when gaming shifted from being hardcore centric to core mainstream centric.  Sega never learned to make games that appealed to core mainstreams, that is why they are screwed now.  The management doesn't want to risk the $30 to $40 million on a new franchise for core mainstreams that might not pan out.

So true.
This is what made the Dreamcast not be the complete success it could have been in a market with a previous mentality.

[Sega Uranus]

There you go. . . werehog was a result of focus group testing on kids.  That is called marketing making game design choices.  It doesn't get more obvious than that. Face the facts.

Or you can stop believing lies made by PR? These are the same people who said Sonic 3 and Knuckles would not fit on a Blu-Ray disc man, how stupid can you be to believe that shit?

Sonic Team readily admitted that the werehog was their idea and that SEGA America and Europe did not like it and wanted them to remove it. Of course I think the full story is that they wanted to appeal to more Japanese consumers as the genre does well there and Sonic has been doing horribly in that region for quite some time.

What you should have said was that Shadow's game was designed with the 12-14 year old demographic in mind. Oh wait, that sounds like the SEGA Club series on the Genesis... I guess that is where the whole 'Casual game' epidemic started. Fuck you, SEGA Pico! Burn in Hell, Busy Town of Richard Scary! You killed SEGA!

What designates a console hardcore, core mainstream, or casual is the intended target audience of the marketing focus and corresponding development focus.  Of course Wii is a casual console.  How the fuck would having a small percentage of its library being hardcore games designate it anything else but casual.  If the majority of the focus is on casual then it is a casual console.  Mega Drive like NES before it was a console that won great mainstream appeal yet the game design choices were in the hands of the game designers and not the marketing departments designating them gamer's machines rather than mainstreamers.

Except we live in a world where movie games have always been huge sellers, where the largest market has always been towards children, where developers have always reached out for other IPs to put in their games for them to sell better.

I so wished SEGA did the same with Val, give it was more chance, improve the Canvas Tech, and roll out a Multi Platform sequel hoping it would get established. Nope SEGA cut and run and produced a PSP version, which hasn't helped the game sell any better.

It didn't make the sales to justify that.  That's why it went to PSP.  In the West it was too niche and hardcore. . . just what I'm telling you.

Every person I ever met in real life who was a fan of Valkyria Chronicles was a mainstream weeaboo who have huge Naruto collections and the like. They also do not even give a shit about SEGA and usually only buy games published by Atlas. I have no idea how these people are more 'Hardcore' than people who excessively play games like Call of Duty or Madden. Did you know people actually have died from playing those games too long? Now try and name me one person who has died from playing Valkyria Chronicles too long. I doubt any exist, or ever will.

I've already gone over my thesis tirrelessly; that the game market shifted screwing Sega with PS2 and Xbox generation and Sega management isn't going to take the financial risk to bring out sequels or new IP's of anything traditionally artsy, out of the norm, or quirky trademark Sega.  The management will approve crap that can sell to casual and mainstream audiences because that is where the profits are and then us hardcore fans that what old school Sonic, Skies, Shenmue II, Jet, etc, etc get fucked.  So, fuck you, modern game audiences!

What 'Market shift' do you keep mentioning? How can you be so certain that just because some Dreamcast games failed that everything must have changed for the worse? Where is your proof that Jet Set Radio would have sold on the Saturn, the Genesis, the Master System or any platform ever? You have not given any and most likely have not even thought about this.

I will tell you the truth as to what has happened in the industry... The truth being that more original IPs in games now exist and are more profitable than ever. More games than ever support online features, whether it be leaderboards to compare scores with people all over the world or online multiplayer with dozens of people at a time. To me, the industry has never been as vibrant and open than it is now.

Of course, I will always prefer games from the 16-bit era the most. This does not make them better, this is just what I prefer. The anger you have towards the whole industry now is that you liked games back in the day more than you do now. Maybe you are just losing interest in the medium? Either way, you are taking this all far too seriously. Like come on man, how can you hate on videogames at all? Back when we were kids, it did not matter what a title was about, as long as we thought it was fun. THAT was what games were always supposed to be about!

The industry has not changed for the worse, you have just let your opinion run wild for too long within the past few years, making you think you are better and smarter than everyone. You are not. You are just some guy who complains that Jet Set Radio could have or should have been a bigger seller. It is just a damn game.

[George]

I'm sorry to inform you, but After Burner, when it was out, was considered a 'casual' game due to how easy it was to pick up and play. Sort of how Space Invaders, Pac-man were as well.

Now they are hardcore cuz most of use grew up with them, but if a game comes out with the same principles, we all laugh at it and call it casual.