SEGA’s Panzer Dragoon is one of those rail shooters with fantastic art style that blew lots of fans’ imaginations and many consider the franchise as being one of the most underrated SEGA games of all time. The Dengeki Playstation magazine decided to ask some SEGA developers some direct questions about the future of some SEGA entries, one being Panzer Dragoon. Satoshi Sakai (Producer Phantasy Star Online 2) was asked if the company would ever make a new Panzer Dragoon type game and he answered:
I would like to make it, but I’m sorry to say we’re in a difficult place for something like that to sell.
The other person that was asked a few questions for the magazine was Toshihiro Nagoshi (Daytona USA, Super Monkey Ball, Yakuza series) who was asked about making a new IP which he said is being considered, even though his team was making it seem like Yakuza franchise can’t last forever a few months ago.
As for Panzer Dragoon not ‘selling enough’ for a new entry, its hard to tell. There hasn’t been a new entry since 2002’s Panzer Dragoon Orta which sold 122,170 units in America alone. Its not a bad number (for being a early Xbox game) and its sad that SEGA never capitalized on it.
[Source: Gematsu]
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*they’re
Fixed, my bad.
I assume they looked Crimson Dragon sales as well
For sure, though there is a lot of … hum problems with that. Microsoft sorta shoved that game in the toilet and it wasn’t very good (kept changing from 360 to kinect to whatever happen with it). Though yeah, SEGA doesn’t care about that they just see sales I assume.
I wonder how much involvement that Yukio Futatsugi actually had with Crimson Dragon, and how much damage Microsoft ultimately caused to his work, it was disappointing to hear he was the director of it, considering he was also the director of the excellent and legendary Panzer Dragoon Saga for the Sega Saturn.
You know it’s bad when reviewers were stating that playing the first few stages of the original Sega classics was far more satisfying than the entirety of Crimson Dragon was. Not that it was the worst game ever, but to compare it with the proper Panzer series is offensive, good job it had it’s own name then, it should’ve been far better than what it was.
It had some solid design and music, but that’s it. For me, it was the microtransaction bull crap that killed it for me. It sucks what little soul it had right out of it.
Except that soundtrack; it’s worth listening to separate from the game.
I was about to comment that same thing…
Crimson Dragon wasn’t a hit :/
And Yukio Futatsugi’s next project is also ‘on hold’…
What’s his next project again?
Phantom Dust remake/remaster
Crimson Dragon was by no means a Sega product, however people were touting it as a spiritual successor to Panzer Dragoon based on a few of it’s members being responsible for the legendary Sega Panzer games, however, it is not related to the original Sega series, the IP is Sega’s so they’d have to create a new IP for this project that would become Crimson Dragon.
I do believe the project was heavily botched up no doubt, with changes in direction that likely superseded Futatsugi’s directive, it was rushed as well and you can tell by the awful experience with the controls that it was shoe horned in at the last stages of development, as initially, the entire project was meant to be an example of the Kinect technology which was just starting out at the time.
What of some of the level design and the score? There’s clear similarities there between the two.
No doubt but linking Crimson Dragon to Panzer Dragoon is like linking Omega Boost (considered a decent game itself) to Panzer Dragoon, Omega Boost also has clear similarities yet people seldom point that out when comparing Crimson, even though the lead designer of Omega Boost was also Yuji Yasuhara, a former member of Team Andromeda who previously worked on Panzer Dragoon II Zwei at Sega.
As you rightly said, it is it’s own IP, as was Omega, my guess for the comparison is simply all down to the theme, dragons, Crimson gets compared more simply as it also has dragons, where as Omega was simply robots in place of dragons, but is no less similar in other aspects below the superficial surface, other than that, they all share similarities beyond the themes and still are retained as their own distinct IPs.
Well,
That and the staff of Crimson Dragon themselves said that they liked to think of Crimson Dragon as what Panzer Dragoon would have been like, had it been made today.
So while it is it’s own IP, it’s one that was crafted in the image of Panzer Dragoon by several of the original staff from Team Andromeda…
Or perhaps it might have just been their sales patter pre-release to capitalize of the fans of the Panzer Dragoon series, good job it really did have it’s own name then, as it’s saved Panzer Dragoon from having it’s image officially tarnished by Microsoft, leaving it still officially in the clear with a series still regarded as being high quality with not one bad game to it’s name.
That’s what I wondered, they were advertising it as a spiritual successor to Panzer Dragoon, but some important elements are missing, like the Panzerese language for one which partly captivated the unique feel of the Panzer games, instead it had a weird Americanised cultural tone to it that sort of distracts from the experience of the Panzer games that were always in Panzerese – eastern languages – a sort of Euro-Jap mix.
Perhaps if they, y’know, actually did this thing that’s called ‘marketing the game’ properly, so that people actually know that it even exists in the first place, then it’d solve the selling issue, even Panzer Dragoon Orta sold quite well and it wasn’t even on a Sega console, so it didn’t have top priority marketing as it would have other wise had, and it still did well, and remains one of the best games on the system.
I think a Panzer Dragoon HD collection and a new RPG would be perfect.
When you look at other big name productions from companies like
that French one Ubi-soft, with their world wide behemoth multi-million sellers like Assassin’s Creed and Far Cry.
Capcom with their Resident Evil and Street Fighter franchises.
Nintendo with their Mario and Zelda franchises.
Square Enix with their Tomb Raider and Final Fantasy franchises.
Activision with their Call of Duty and Black Ops franchises.
Electronic Arts with their Fifa and Dragon Ages franchises.
Konami with their Metal Gear Solid and Silent Hill franchises.
All big names that are well associated with these companies and are well established and recognised IPs to the eyes of millions, they continually all sell multiple millions every time a new entry in the series is released.
It makes you wonder what Sega really has that can compete, other than their obvious little red booted blue mascot of course – which has lost it’s way on and off for years. How could it possibly not have been able to stay afloat and competitive with them all when it is one of the few companies in the world, if not the only one, that is sitting on such a massive gold mine of it’s own IP that it doesn’t even bother to do anything with, whether not bothering to make a new entry in the franchise or bothering to market it right when it rarely does do something with it.
It’s no good releasing something unless it’s very good and there’s not point putting out very good content if you don’t market it right, Sega has a long history of doing one or the other to the expense of the other.
Maybe if Sega could learn to do both it would actually have a significant portion of it’s back catalog of Sega IPs being multi million sellers today – many of which paved the way for other companies IPs in terms of pioneering.
In this case though, the last Panzer Dragoon was a notable hit considering it’s marketing efforts and a very good game to this day which still stands up well to the newest games and IPs, so the only logic I can see in this statement is that it’s because they are thinking of the figures of the time being quite lower in todays market, as the videogame industry has grown massively even since then, so a 100,000 seller is hardly going to be anything worthwhile other than to appease the most rabid fans.
Well then, if you don’t make an effort with what you have in the first place, then you have nothing to make a case for, all these companies and their franchises have been massive successes because they have put a decent level of effort into them, and from all angles, not just one or two.
Well in fairness, Sega does have their Ryu Ga Gotoku (Yakuza in the West) franchise as well and a few others, like Phantasy Star – but like most of Sega’s other valued and sought assets, they are typically restricted to eastern territories, leaving the west with only Sonic and a few PC franchises like Football Manager and the Total War series that they are notably known for other than the memories of their IPs from the golden age.
I wonder if the claims of the original Panzer Dragoon Saga source code being lost are genuine, or if it’s really just a convenient excuse not to attempt on re-releasing it.
It’s not even like they’d have to make a brand new title in the franchise right now, just a few Saturn releases – they done it with Guardian Heroes, can’t be asking too much today to have some Saturn and Dreamcast re-releases surely.
I think the main issue here is that on-rails shooters have fallen so far out of favor in the last decade that the general consensus among gamers is that on-rails games are just bad. It’d be difficult even for Panzer Dragoon to change that around on its own.
So it’s a genre issue then, like how the 80s scroller saw the Streets of Rage franchise loose it’s main market. I remember how Panzer Dragoon started as an on-rails glider to showcase the Saturns 3D capabilities – that’s the only reason why the original was built to be this way.
So why not have the Panzer Dragoon franchise revert to a primarily RPG, with on-rails segments spliced into it – as homage to some of it’s on-rails predecessors, and have it look to Panzer Dragoon Saga as it’s foundation with the first two as it’s prototype precursors that led to it.
I can see the appeal in that, Azel Panzer Dragoon RPG is most fans favourite in the series anyway and it works very well in an RPG genre, it has a rich, interesting and unique universe that is unlike anything else that can match it, vast enough to expand on with several series of games.
That could work…if Saga weren’t the bastard child by being one of the rarest games in existence. Most PEOPLE, let alone Panzer Dragoon fans, have even laid eyes on the game, let alone played it. Saga doesn’t even fit into the cult classic mold because barely anyone’s actually played it, so making a successor to it would be very difficult given that no one played the predecessor.
Now a remake, on the other hand, that could work out.
Sega became a peace of ””. I dont even want a sega game anymore. Those dudes ruined every ip. And they just sit on it till the last fan goes. This company does not deserve respect. Liars. That is what they are
Not really surprising. Panzer Dragoon has some excellent games, but it was never all that popular. I really doubt that a triple A PD game would sell to satisfaction. On-rail shooters are not that popular today.
What happened to Satomi’s “Regain Trust From Players”?
Panzer Dragoon and co. are the kind of games to regain trust, not sonic boom or warhammer.
At wiz
Its all just bussiness deceptive talk. Really it has been very long now. And you do not have to asume that sega is being a liar. It is a diplomacy lie tactic. Satomi is a mofo he just says that to keep the fire on a little longer. Well at least that is what he thinks. The fire went of long time ago. And his lies only confirm that even more. Many say konami is bullshizz. We got mgsv tho. Sega is playing the remnants of fans like a violin. Even the hardcore fans stopped caring for sega. And that really says a lot. Sorry to be a complainer, but this is what many share in opinion and perhaps almost definitly sure its a fact. If you think i exagerate please tell me. Im open for discussions
The problem is that Sega doesn’t have enough loyal fans that buy pretty much all their products when they come, like Nintendo or EA does, yes Sega has a lot and even today it is still a big brand compared to many others in the industry but not enough.
So it leads to this risk/risk averse situation where they either take the risk and make the games the people actually want and risk it not selling enough, or they play it safe by not making the game and therefore saving themselves a financial loss but at the cost of fan approval.
The ‘SEGA’ brand alone used to be powerful enough to shift stock, but that was in the Mega Drive days/early 90s, which caused them to become too arrogant and complacent, which cost them, at least they still had their hardcore crowd though that stuck with them through the Saturn and Dreamcast (owning a Saturn was something only a true Sega fan in the west could do – similar to how owning an SNK is still like a mark of a true hard core enthusiast – it said something about you as a person, made an impression and statement).
But since Sega shifted their structure, from a 1st party to a 3rd party, that has minimised the crowd even further, at last in the west where Sega barely exists other than as that company that makes the Sonic games.
So they have these IPs they could capitalise on, but again it all comes down to the risk dichotomy.
Or maybe it’s simply Sammy’s influence in the holding company that is really holding Sega back as up till 2004, 2005, Sega was still Sega the way they were with the hardware to an extent, before Sammy’s influence had started to lave it’s mark in Sega management.
Sammy is no longer Sega’s parent company.
Also, SEGA is mostly and Arcade company, not really a publisher. They’re bread and butter is Arcades. That’s where their IP talent lies.
Then…Shenmue HD won’t be a problem right?
Then… JSRF HD won’t be a problem right?
I was about to mention this. If making whole new games of their IPs is too much, then why not re-release the originals from these IPs that’d we’d want, it should be profitable for Sega, they don’t have to spend that much on production and they have a guaranteed fan-base that they know will definitely shell out cash to them as soon as they put it out there on shelves or digitally.
Makes you wonder who really is running Sega and how they don’t seem to see the obvious business opportunity.
The “We” is a very small vocal minority.
At eck:
Its simple. They simply dont care. They milk us with mobile games and the sit on their lazy ashes and drink coffee. This company is bleeding and not earning imo. Where does sega make money fromapart from tbeir coh tw? They only want profit. But not risking anything in life means also to never grow. Sega is hoping that they will find a formula like assassins creed or far cry. They tried that with aliens. They lost soul in games.
@Segal I can’t argue with that. I fear that Sammy’s side of the management really has restricted the true Sega, before this, Sega was a mix of great games and the profits from them, sure they were lacking in the business aspect for a few years, but their excellent game production alone kept them relevant, and since then the company has been sleep walking into relative obscurity as a result with overly restrictive business practices that are ridiculously risk averse and restrictive to Sega’s intrinsic creativity and original output, Sega was even still supporting the Dreamcast with official releases years after it ceased the largest scale production, and regularly still kept refurbishing new batches of Dreamcasts from time to time and sort of contributed to it as a long life platform similar to how SNK do with their ‘Neo Geo’ platform range. Sega should have kept CSK as their parent company in hind sight, they never dared to try to control and restrict Sega in anyway (and even supported Sega’s hardware divisions) compared to this Sammy partnership. I can sort of see how some people at Sega were saying that slowing Dreamcast production down wasn’t Sega shooting themselves in the foot, it was getting into this merger with Sammy that some key Sega people felt was the true death of the real Sega, and they even left in protest, at the time, I didn’t see the significance of it, but I now in hindsight, it seems they were right. This is not the real Sega in anything other than name, and Sammy I think has a lot to answer for this with the controlling shares they bought.
Sammy is no longer Sega’s parent company or shareholder. Its hasn’t been since 2010.
They do care. They just want to make profit. Taking risks with IPs millenials don’t know about is not one of the ways to do so.
How else are they going to do it then? If you don’t market the products properly, then nobody even knows they exist, which is why they don’t sell as much as they could which means smaller profits overall.
SEGA is taking important first steps in doing so.
The Steam market is ripe for profit. The Mobile gaming market also still has untapped potential.
Also, the fact that SEGA is expanding its Global Arcade business for the first time since 1995 is another important step to success in their game IPs.
These are markets where they’ll profit. Where consumers will pay attention to them.
At eck
Sorry for the late response but you summed it up. Im not sure if sammy is really the cause. But it has to be. Its a wonder i didnt stop loving sega untill for about 2 years.
Have you ever talked to 20 year old guys? I had many times that i said i love sega. And they didnt even know sega untill i said sonic and they would be like yeah sonic. This is the moment for a new sega console cause sega doesnt have a record in these kids eyes. Ah well its just a huge pipedream i gave up. Sega is not sega anymore and satomi is a liar for sure. Panzer dragoon will be remembered in my good times archive
Hello, my name is EnternalHope. I am an alumni of Dreamcast-Talk(a fantastic true SEGA fan community).
I want to set the the record straight. I have lots of juicy and extremely euphoric news regarding SEGA Holdings,Ltd(SEGA as a whole) once you study this info, you will believe in them again, Haijime Satomi’s July Statement in Famistu is not related to Sega as a publisher but its regarding who SEGA used to be and strives to become.
First of all, SEGA DOES care about its other classic IPs. They cherish and value them. Their games just don’t profit. The 3rd party division is the LEAST profitable part of the company.(It hasn’t made profit since 2008) And that’s not a bad thing I need you to understand that.
Second of all, SEGA Holdings,Ltd now runs and owns Sega Sammy. Sammy’s own relevancy in Kabushiki Kaisha Sega is now basically a dying Wholly Owned Subsidiarity. Pretty Soon, Sammy Corporation,Inc will be replaced by SEGA Live Creation,Inc which will be both the Theme Park,Amusement park and HARDWARE division of SEGA Holdings(There’s smoking gun evidence showing plans to start developing home consumer console and hardware products one more.) & by Sega Entertainment Corp,Ltd.
This is a taste of what you’ll be hearing from me. I’ve got the source to prove that SEGA wants to make console hardware again.
At enternalhope
Are you going to spam us with trademarks and patents as proof?
Cause i dont buy that nonsenses
Your pretty mean.
Why the rude behavior?Sour grapes?
I’d say so.
@EnternalHope Can you prove any of your claims?
I don’t think I’m the only one here who can claim that we’ve seen so many disingenuous claims made by people who claim to have this insider knowledge on Sega as a company.
I remember John Wilcox on SegaWeb in ’01 (a sector of the Gamerweb site) that made a lot of sophistry claims about what they were claiming to do. The latest was the whole Sega Spectrum nonsense last year and their partnership merger with BBC World, both once again, turning out to be fake like all claims like this of the past 15 years. I know some people love to rile people up online like this, or simply to live in an illusion that Sega is getting ready to do this or planning to eventually do that ect. Even Simon Jeffrey said in ’08 that it is as far reaching as eternal within Sega itself.
What does seem to be the most believable though out of these claims is that Sega isn’t owned by Sammy anymore (if they ever were and it was not a partnership rather than ownership like how Sega owns Atlus), but that’s by comparison, can you provide any links, any citations at all?
Yes. I can indeed prove that Sammy is now a Wholly Owned Subsidiary of Sega Holdings,Ltd.
As for Sega Live Creation,
http://www.wipo.int/romarin/advSearch.do?ID=0&searchDatabasePen=on&searchString=+%2FMARKGR%2FCURRENT%2FBASGR%2FBASAPPGR%2FBASAPPN+contains+2015-029514
“home video game machines; stand alone video output game machines; parts and accessories of arcade video game machines; apparatus for games; controllers for game consoles;headphones; memory cards for video game machine;”
Right so if Sammy sold the stock in 2010, who bought it?
And do you have proof that that they want to reform their hardware division?
No answer?
If Sega bought Sammy, then why is the merger holding company still active?
https://www.segasammy.co.jp/english/
“Sega Sammy Holdings Inc. is a Japanese holding company formed from a merger of Sega and Sammy. They are both very involved in the amusement business, and Sega’s fame also comes from their video game franchises and home consoles.”
At enternalhope. We all know who you are
You were zachary morris
Then you were mrsega at sega16.com
And now your patent trademark spam us on segabits. Pls go away
@EnternalHope I got your msg on the forums as follows…
http://www.intergameonline.com/coin-op/news/14616/change-at-sega
“The new company, SAI, remains a wholly-owned subsidiary of Sega Interactive, a division of Sega Sammy Holdings. The oldSega Amusements Europehad a territory consisting of Europe, the Middle East and Africa, plus Russia and the Americas. Now it will take care of the whole world except for Japan itself.The official release said: “By leveraging the company’s strengths in innovation, creativity and research and development, SAI is already looking forward to producing a range of products tailored for these new markets. Dedicated R&D teams based in the UK and US will be headed by senior game producer Ogasawara, renowned for the development of Transformers and Let’s Go Jungle, who will be based in the UK.”The company’s headquarters will remain in London, as it is seen as a central timezone for international coverage. Current COO Paul Williams will become the new CEO of SAI. “We are extremely optimistic about the future for the entire out-of-home entertainment industry,” said Williams.“The chance to grow into these new markets presents us with exciting opportunities we fully intend to maximise.”
This is significant. Very significant and excellent news for Sega and its investors, investing into rebuilding SEGA’s Core Arcade business Globally is the first HUGE step into reviving and rebuilding SEGA’s brand name as whole. Showing the world who they really are and helping to explain to young gamers the type of brand they used to be in the 80s and 90s. This echos what SEGA Holdings,Ltd President Haijime Satomi said in July in Famistu.SEGA can tell the World what kind of BRAND they are and always have been. Arcades can make a comeback. Casual Gamers,PC Fanatics(who already view SEGA favorably) & Veteran console gamers who are dissatisfied with the current market and SICK to death of Call of Duty can be drawn back to Co-Op games,Local Multiplayer games,party games, VS games.Arcades themselves have continued to thrive in Japan,Middle East and in parts of Europe, but SEGA going back to their core market means they’re getting their identity back and shedding this “hasbend console maker who just publishes games” label.
I see strong potential in this move. Perhaps using its Super War Power of Arcade technology is the first proper step in returning to the home consumer business and rebuilding that lost market.What are your thoughts? Perhaps SEGA can become cutting edge again with its bread and butter. Perhaps consumers will see no problem with the D&B payment method of loading currency on Electronic cards. Perhaps VR can make an proper comeback in Arcades.”
Though I have to add that it wasn’t Sega that become negligent of the industry, it was the consumers in the west that did, so if Sega is investing in an industry in a territory that has been in decline for years, what would be the point unless there are signs that western territories are picking up again? There were some signs of this reversal in ’05 but not a lot was done to capitalise on it do it seems it has remained stagnant at best if i is no longer a declining market.